6 ms·

PyCharm 2023.1

64 points by platelminto 4y ago

joppy 4y ago
I hope they also worked on removing the many UI bugs from PyCharm remote: laggy scrolling while in the diff view, some editor settings like rulers at 100/120 chars not working properly, some settings panes lagging out until the editor is restarted, etc etc. I need to develop on a remote VM and I’m using VSCode at the moment because it’s remote story is less buggy, but would much rather be using PyCharm.
- eigenvalue 4y ago
  The remote feature (Jetbrains Gateway) is so buggy that it made me completely stop using PyCharm, since I’m mostly developing remotely now. Whereas the VScode remote feature works beautifully. I also found their Copilot plug-in to be buggy, and that’s also a must have. It’s a shame because, aside from those things, I really like PyCharm. But those things are absolute deal killers for me.
- cleanchit 4y ago
  What issues are you facing? Last time I checked, running headless intellij on a server and editing code on it without ssh latency was a breeze.
  - joppy 4y ago
    There a lots of tiny issues: some UI settings like rulers (or whatever PyCharm calls them, vertical guides that tell you when you’re at 100 chars or something) just don’t work, and don’t show up in the main editor (but they show up in the diffs!). Some editor settings, like the main Python settings pane, just doesn’t load its settings page, and requires restarting the editor. Scrolling diffs with the scroll wheel is so janky and laggy to be unusable, but the main editor scrolls fine. Reconnecting after a short disconnect (open and close laptop lid) takes too long. The git client gets itself into a weird state sometimes where it will create the same 5 files no matter which branch I switch to, and the only way I’ve found to reset that is to delete every trace of IntelliJ off the remote and reconnect.
eCa 4y ago
> It has been created to reduce visual complexity, provide easy access to essential features, and progressively disclose complex functionality as needed – resulting in a cleaner look and feel. I’ll probably try it out in a while, but the only thing I potentially care about of those things is ”easy access to essential features”. If clean look makes things harder to find, then that would be a sign that they don’t know their users. But I’ll wait to judge until I’ve tried it.
- crop_rotation 4y ago
  For what it's worth, as I longtime happy Jetbrains user, I like the new look. I did not feel it hindered access to any of the features I commonly used.
  - dpatterbee 4y ago
    As another longtime user I agree. I think the JetBrains suite had always been showing far too much stuff around the editor that you would pretty much never use. The new layout keeps the stuff you actually want, while putting the extra stuff like 1 additional click away. And honestly, everything's keybound in PyCharm so if you're someone who tries to optimise your editor usage you probably weren't clicking icons anyway.
    - xwowsersx 4y ago
      This is exactly my feeling. I rarely click anything in any JetBrains apps. I have use keyboard shortcuts for every single thing and regularly add new ones if I've had to click on something more than once. It pains me whenever I see people futzing around with the mouse. I regularly try to encourage my direct reports to embrace the keyboard, it is just so so much faster.
- Justsignedup 4y ago
  Been using Rubymine, their new look is great and all features I use daily are still easily accessible.
onphonenow 4y ago
Astro support - interesting
meijer 4y ago
The new UI looks a bit like Visual Studio Code, I think?
- crop_rotation 4y ago
  Correct. If you choose the dark theme it looks very very close to VSCode.
- girafffe_i 4y ago
  This is an unfortunate "scared pandering" path especially as visual studio has moved over to macos and Linux. Microsoft can afford to put these out VSCode and VS for free.
lindbergh 4y ago
Interesting. I heard many good things about Pycharm, but it kind of looks bloated? How does it compare to VS Code (which is quite good (notebook and repl support mostly), but not great, in particular regarding the debugging experience)?
- crop_rotation 4y ago
  PyCharm has a great debugger. I am a longtime Pycharm user and have used VScode from time to time for python, and it seems like only now VSCode is catching up. Pycharm is still better though in the general language support department. However I feel that if you were already a VSCode user, VSCode has become good enough. Pycharm like other IntelliJ based IDEs has many other QoL features which I can't find anywhere else. But if you haven't been using them already I doubt they would seem to make a difference.
  - gamesbrainiac 4y ago
    For me, it comes down to the cohesiveness of the whole thing. VSCode plugins often feel janky.
    - weberer 4y ago
      The VSCode add-on manager also discriminates against users using VSCodium (The open source build of VSCode without Microsoft's proprietary "telemetry"). They simply will not let you install certain add-ons.
- miohtama 4y ago
  For large codebases PyCharm is superior, as VS Code usually chokes in its JavaScript memory usage before PyCharm's Java. You need to load large symbol datasets in the memory and VS Code seem to be struggling with this. PyCharm autocompletion, autoimport, red underline errors and type hinting tools are also better than in VS Code. VS Code Jupyter Notebook integration as better. PyCharm tends to do very badly with complex notebooks. Using both 5+ years.
qikInNdOutReply 4y ago
Still a knights battle helmet when it comes to looking on text. Transparent Modal background to the text is were its at in my opinion. That and buttons on the side. One key to switch into the background. One key to switch the modes.
- justinclift 4y ago
  > That and buttons on the side. They seem to be experimenting with a new-look UI that has buttons on the side. I just enabled it quickly here, and it's clearly a VS Code clone. :( Just reverted back to the standard layout, which I'm more used to. Hopefully they don't try and force this new layout on everyone. Otherwise, people might as well actually just swap to VS Code.
  - Kwpolska 4y ago
    Yeah, right. People will totally switch to a less powerful IDE just because of a small UI change.
bitL 4y ago
Will JetBrains IDEs survive VSCode + GPT plugins combo?
- thenipper 4y ago
  You can run copilot in Jetbrains and a variety of other AI plugins as well
  - bitL 4y ago
    VSCode has dozens of ChatGPT and GPT-4 plugins now, not just copilot/tabnine/kite.
- crop_rotation 4y ago
  For statically typed languages (java,go,c#,kotlin), I find Jetbrains better than VSCode even when VSCode has copilot and Jetbrains doesn't. The thing is, a Jetbrains IDE makes so many things possible and easy, like refactoring complex chunks of code very quickly, then applying it throughout a large codebase. Unless GPT starts doing more than writing small code for functions, Jetbrains will be fine for some time.
hed 4y ago
The remote Jupyter support is very cool. Is there a managed service out there? I think my organization could benefit greatly from common Jupyter infrastructure, but the calculus changes drastically if my tiny team is on the hook for keeping it running.
- weberer 4y ago
  Maybe Sagemaker Studio Lab. https://docs.aws.amazon.com/sagemaker/latest/dg/studio-lab.html https://docs.aws.amazon.com/sagemaker/latest/dg/studio-lab.h...
lopkeny12ko 4y ago
> It has been created to reduce visual complexity, provide easy access to essential features, and progressively disclose complex functionality as needed – resulting in a cleaner look and feel. Please, Jetbrains, and everyone else out there, I beg you, please stop shipping these redesigned UIs that look prettier but are infinitely times less functional and reduce information density by orders of magnitude. Especially for something like an IDE, with a huge base of power users--all this serves is dumbing down software when the vast majority of your users want the exact opposite.
- vladvasiliu 4y ago
  Agree. And this feels all the more useless that they already had a "low-distraction" mode for a while.
- beached_whale 4y ago
  They are trying this with Clion and the toolchain/target interface that works well now. They hid all the targets and one needs more clicks to chose a new one because it became an MRU list. The splitting of the two was nice, but give me all my targets so I can get my work done. The two dropdowns didn’t hurt though, it was always two clicks, but now you can more easily see what toolchain is in use.
- yosef123 4y ago
  I don't mind the changes
  - lopkeny12ko 4y ago
    And that's fine! But why do software vendors feel the need to shove a new design down everyone's throat, even for those who don't want or care for it? As far as I can tell, there is an option to opt out of the new UI, but I won't bank on it lasting long.
    - Mr3zee 4y ago
      I guess because it is too hard to support two very complex and different UIs
hospitalJail 4y ago
I've fully moved past jetbrains. The program is slower than every other IDE I use. Any time you reboot or change environments there it takes like 3-10 minutes with my tower. I know that seems like a niche reason, but when no other IDE has this issue, and they have similar/better plugins; why bother? Since the VIM addon of Spyder, I've been hooked. I personally like the data visualizations the best. They are fast and have lots of features. Seems like spyder is underrated in the python world, although VSCode is ofc incredibly dynamic.
- gumballindie 4y ago
  Unfortunately this is very true. My machine has 64 gb of ram 3600, and a AMD Ryzen 9 3900X 12-Core Processor. Even inside openbox jetbrains apps run extremely slow. Tried on windows, tried on mac, i endup in the same place. Sadly I will have to give in to using vs code.
- kspacewalk2 4y ago
  I've got two IntelliJ projects and two Pycharm projects open right now (all of them are of significant complexity), on a 7 year old Macbook Pro with 16 GB of RAM, and they're running fine. There's a small UI lag at times, but nothing that would remotely cause me grief. But I don't use many plugins, maybe that's the difference.
- crop_rotation 4y ago
  I don't think any other IDE has "better" functionality. A Jetbrains IDE packs a ton of features (I have tried several alternatives but none come close). The only language where VSCode even seriously competes is Typescript (Rider is much better at C#). I used them originally on 4GB laptop and now on 16GB macbook, and I never found it to be too slow. (the indexing part can be slow, but they mitigated it somewhat by allowing you to download pre built indexes). I have never spent 5 minutes on any index operation in almost any Jetbrains IDE. You might want to check your VMOptions and see if there is anything in there causing it to be extra slow.
  - bshipp 4y ago
    If the OS is Windows, I'd suggest anyone struggling with lag make absolutely certain that the project and scratch folders are excluded from Defender real-time scanning. It makes a huge difference.
foxandmouse 4y ago
I think that IDEs a becoming more useful since our reliance on LLM tooling for code production increases. That said, why isn't there any good alternative to webstorm?
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- kspacewalk2 4y ago
  >That said, why isn't there any good alternative to webstorm? Sadly all the people who could build one are on HN complaining/nitpicking about the various deficiencies of Jetbrains IDEs :)
mellosouls 4y ago
I'm afraid I lost faith in PyCharm etc when the professional version I paid for on the basis of its promise to allow remote development and debugging didn't remotely (ha!) work. Switched to VSCode and haven't looked back.
mitchellpkt 4y ago
I’ve been using pycharm pretty much daily for a few years, and switched to the new UI a few weeks ago. I like it, especially when doing dev work with only one monitor. You might hate it, but it’s worth giving it a shot.

PyCharm 2023.1

64 points by platelminto 4y ago

I hope they also worked on removing the many UI bugs from PyCharm remote: laggy scrolling while in the diff view, some editor settings like rulers at 100/120 chars not working properly, some settings panes lagging out until the editor is restarted, etc etc. I need to develop on a remote VM and I’m using VSCode at the moment because it’s remote story is less buggy, but would much rather be using PyCharm.

eigenvalue 4y ago
The remote feature (Jetbrains Gateway) is so buggy that it made me completely stop using PyCharm, since I’m mostly developing remotely now. Whereas the VScode remote feature works beautifully. I also found their Copilot plug-in to be buggy, and that’s also a must have. It’s a shame because, aside from those things, I really like PyCharm. But those things are absolute deal killers for me.
cleanchit 4y ago
What issues are you facing? Last time I checked, running headless intellij on a server and editing code on it without ssh latency was a breeze.
- joppy 4y ago
  There a lots of tiny issues: some UI settings like rulers (or whatever PyCharm calls them, vertical guides that tell you when you’re at 100 chars or something) just don’t work, and don’t show up in the main editor (but they show up in the diffs!). Some editor settings, like the main Python settings pane, just doesn’t load its settings page, and requires restarting the editor. Scrolling diffs with the scroll wheel is so janky and laggy to be unusable, but the main editor scrolls fine. Reconnecting after a short disconnect (open and close laptop lid) takes too long. The git client gets itself into a weird state sometimes where it will create the same 5 files no matter which branch I switch to, and the only way I’ve found to reset that is to delete every trace of IntelliJ off the remote and reconnect.

eCa 4y ago

> It has been created to reduce visual complexity, provide easy access to essential features, and progressively disclose complex functionality as needed – resulting in a cleaner look and feel. I’ll probably try it out in a while, but the only thing I potentially care about of those things is ”easy access to essential features”. If clean look makes things harder to find, then that would be a sign that they don’t know their users. But I’ll wait to judge until I’ve tried it.

crop_rotation 4y ago
For what it's worth, as I longtime happy Jetbrains user, I like the new look. I did not feel it hindered access to any of the features I commonly used.
- dpatterbee 4y ago
  As another longtime user I agree. I think the JetBrains suite had always been showing far too much stuff around the editor that you would pretty much never use. The new layout keeps the stuff you actually want, while putting the extra stuff like 1 additional click away. And honestly, everything's keybound in PyCharm so if you're someone who tries to optimise your editor usage you probably weren't clicking icons anyway.
  - xwowsersx 4y ago
    This is exactly my feeling. I rarely click anything in any JetBrains apps. I have use keyboard shortcuts for every single thing and regularly add new ones if I've had to click on something more than once. It pains me whenever I see people futzing around with the mouse. I regularly try to encourage my direct reports to embrace the keyboard, it is just so so much faster.
Justsignedup 4y ago
Been using Rubymine, their new look is great and all features I use daily are still easily accessible.

onphonenow 4y ago

Astro support - interesting

meijer 4y ago

The new UI looks a bit like Visual Studio Code, I think?

crop_rotation 4y ago
Correct. If you choose the dark theme it looks very very close to VSCode.
girafffe_i 4y ago
This is an unfortunate "scared pandering" path especially as visual studio has moved over to macos and Linux. Microsoft can afford to put these out VSCode and VS for free.

lindbergh 4y ago

Interesting. I heard many good things about Pycharm, but it kind of looks bloated? How does it compare to VS Code (which is quite good (notebook and repl support mostly), but not great, in particular regarding the debugging experience)?

crop_rotation 4y ago
PyCharm has a great debugger. I am a longtime Pycharm user and have used VScode from time to time for python, and it seems like only now VSCode is catching up. Pycharm is still better though in the general language support department. However I feel that if you were already a VSCode user, VSCode has become good enough. Pycharm like other IntelliJ based IDEs has many other QoL features which I can't find anywhere else. But if you haven't been using them already I doubt they would seem to make a difference.
- gamesbrainiac 4y ago
  For me, it comes down to the cohesiveness of the whole thing. VSCode plugins often feel janky.
  - weberer 4y ago
    The VSCode add-on manager also discriminates against users using VSCodium (The open source build of VSCode without Microsoft's proprietary "telemetry"). They simply will not let you install certain add-ons.
miohtama 4y ago
For large codebases PyCharm is superior, as VS Code usually chokes in its JavaScript memory usage before PyCharm's Java. You need to load large symbol datasets in the memory and VS Code seem to be struggling with this. PyCharm autocompletion, autoimport, red underline errors and type hinting tools are also better than in VS Code. VS Code Jupyter Notebook integration as better. PyCharm tends to do very badly with complex notebooks. Using both 5+ years.

qikInNdOutReply 4y ago

Still a knights battle helmet when it comes to looking on text. Transparent Modal background to the text is were its at in my opinion. That and buttons on the side. One key to switch into the background. One key to switch the modes.

justinclift 4y ago
> That and buttons on the side. They seem to be experimenting with a new-look UI that has buttons on the side. I just enabled it quickly here, and it's clearly a VS Code clone. :( Just reverted back to the standard layout, which I'm more used to. Hopefully they don't try and force this new layout on everyone. Otherwise, people might as well actually just swap to VS Code.
- Kwpolska 4y ago
  Yeah, right. People will totally switch to a less powerful IDE just because of a small UI change.

bitL 4y ago

Will JetBrains IDEs survive VSCode + GPT plugins combo?

thenipper 4y ago
You can run copilot in Jetbrains and a variety of other AI plugins as well
- bitL 4y ago
  VSCode has dozens of ChatGPT and GPT-4 plugins now, not just copilot/tabnine/kite.
crop_rotation 4y ago
For statically typed languages (java,go,c#,kotlin), I find Jetbrains better than VSCode even when VSCode has copilot and Jetbrains doesn't. The thing is, a Jetbrains IDE makes so many things possible and easy, like refactoring complex chunks of code very quickly, then applying it throughout a large codebase. Unless GPT starts doing more than writing small code for functions, Jetbrains will be fine for some time.

hed 4y ago

The remote Jupyter support is very cool. Is there a managed service out there? I think my organization could benefit greatly from common Jupyter infrastructure, but the calculus changes drastically if my tiny team is on the hook for keeping it running.

weberer 4y ago
Maybe Sagemaker Studio Lab. https://docs.aws.amazon.com/sagemaker/latest/dg/studio-lab.html https://docs.aws.amazon.com/sagemaker/latest/dg/studio-lab.h...

lopkeny12ko 4y ago

> It has been created to reduce visual complexity, provide easy access to essential features, and progressively disclose complex functionality as needed – resulting in a cleaner look and feel. Please, Jetbrains, and everyone else out there, I beg you, please stop shipping these redesigned UIs that look prettier but are infinitely times less functional and reduce information density by orders of magnitude. Especially for something like an IDE, with a huge base of power users--all this serves is dumbing down software when the vast majority of your users want the exact opposite.

vladvasiliu 4y ago
Agree. And this feels all the more useless that they already had a "low-distraction" mode for a while.
beached_whale 4y ago
They are trying this with Clion and the toolchain/target interface that works well now. They hid all the targets and one needs more clicks to chose a new one because it became an MRU list. The splitting of the two was nice, but give me all my targets so I can get my work done. The two dropdowns didn’t hurt though, it was always two clicks, but now you can more easily see what toolchain is in use.
yosef123 4y ago
I don't mind the changes
- lopkeny12ko 4y ago
  And that's fine! But why do software vendors feel the need to shove a new design down everyone's throat, even for those who don't want or care for it? As far as I can tell, there is an option to opt out of the new UI, but I won't bank on it lasting long.
  - Mr3zee 4y ago
    I guess because it is too hard to support two very complex and different UIs

hospitalJail 4y ago

I've fully moved past jetbrains. The program is slower than every other IDE I use. Any time you reboot or change environments there it takes like 3-10 minutes with my tower. I know that seems like a niche reason, but when no other IDE has this issue, and they have similar/better plugins; why bother? Since the VIM addon of Spyder, I've been hooked. I personally like the data visualizations the best. They are fast and have lots of features. Seems like spyder is underrated in the python world, although VSCode is ofc incredibly dynamic.

gumballindie 4y ago
Unfortunately this is very true. My machine has 64 gb of ram 3600, and a AMD Ryzen 9 3900X 12-Core Processor. Even inside openbox jetbrains apps run extremely slow. Tried on windows, tried on mac, i endup in the same place. Sadly I will have to give in to using vs code.
kspacewalk2 4y ago
I've got two IntelliJ projects and two Pycharm projects open right now (all of them are of significant complexity), on a 7 year old Macbook Pro with 16 GB of RAM, and they're running fine. There's a small UI lag at times, but nothing that would remotely cause me grief. But I don't use many plugins, maybe that's the difference.
crop_rotation 4y ago
I don't think any other IDE has "better" functionality. A Jetbrains IDE packs a ton of features (I have tried several alternatives but none come close). The only language where VSCode even seriously competes is Typescript (Rider is much better at C#). I used them originally on 4GB laptop and now on 16GB macbook, and I never found it to be too slow. (the indexing part can be slow, but they mitigated it somewhat by allowing you to download pre built indexes). I have never spent 5 minutes on any index operation in almost any Jetbrains IDE. You might want to check your VMOptions and see if there is anything in there causing it to be extra slow.
- bshipp 4y ago
  If the OS is Windows, I'd suggest anyone struggling with lag make absolutely certain that the project and scratch folders are excluded from Defender real-time scanning. It makes a huge difference.

foxandmouse 4y ago

I think that IDEs a becoming more useful since our reliance on LLM tooling for code production increases. That said, why isn't there any good alternative to webstorm?

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
kspacewalk2 4y ago
>That said, why isn't there any good alternative to webstorm? Sadly all the people who could build one are on HN complaining/nitpicking about the various deficiencies of Jetbrains IDEs :)

mellosouls 4y ago

I'm afraid I lost faith in PyCharm etc when the professional version I paid for on the basis of its promise to allow remote development and debugging didn't remotely (ha!) work. Switched to VSCode and haven't looked back.

mitchellpkt 4y ago

I’ve been using pycharm pretty much daily for a few years, and switched to the new UI a few weeks ago. I like it, especially when doing dev work with only one monitor. You might hate it, but it’s worth giving it a shot.