5 ms·

Saying this as a European: Whenever I visit Italy, I love the food, I love the people, I love the weather and the beaches. However, I often sense that in many

by baxtr 4y ago

Saying this as a European: Whenever I visit Italy, I love the food, I love the people, I love the weather and the beaches. However, I often sense that in many places, the country seems to be entrenched in its medieval past. This decision will not accelerate Italy's progress towards a more prosperous future.

thefz 4y ago
I am actually very happy about this. If you like to have no protection over how big corporate treats your data as your own, and ingests whatever whenever they need to profit off your personal information, be my guest. But I am happy to have a watchdog over my basic human rights. > However, I often sense that in many places, the country seems to be entrenched in its medieval past. It might be. But not on this front.
- quadcore 4y ago
  I believe this is a totally commendable position but I also believe that you're naive about this ruling. I think this is the power classes freaking out someone might be eating their lunch or discovering their dirty secrets. For example, what if some italians uses chatgpt and leak things you dont wanna know about italy? That, I believe would prompt otherwise slow-to-act politicians to jump off their rocking-chairs and start making some phone calls. Not about your neck. Just a guess.
  - thefz 4y ago
    That is taking conspirationism to a whole new level.
    - quadcore 4y ago
      Okay lets take an example. Do you think the Vatican likes chatgpt? Lets ask chatgpt what he think about sex: "It is important to protect oneself during sexual activities to prevent the transmission of sexually transmitted infections (STIs) and unwanted pregnancies. Using condoms or other forms of contraception can greatly reduce the risk of transmission and unplanned pregnancy. Additionally, it is important to communicate openly and honestly with sexual partners about sexual health and STI status, and to get tested regularly for STIs, especially if one is sexually active with multiple partners. Ultimately, the decision to protect oneself during sexual activities is a personal one that depends on individual circumstances and preferences. However, it is generally recommended that individuals take steps to protect themselves and their sexual partners from potential health risks." I especially liked the "multiple partners" part didnt you?
      - thefz 4y ago
        This is information you could find way before ChatGPT, it's nothing new. Internet is full of porn since its inception as well. So? Besides, the Vatican has zero weight in decisions taken by the EU. You are dreaming.
      - mftrhu 4y ago
        ... what does the Vatican City State have to do with this decision from the Garante per la Protezione dei Dati Personali, an independent administrative authority of the Republic of Italy?
- revelio 4y ago
  You're talking about a website you have to specifically visit and type your personal information in to, which doesn't even ask for your name and which is simultaneously being accused of not knowing enough about you (your age). There is no "protection" needed here. If you don't like it, don't use it.
  - thefz 4y ago
    I don't use it. Read the ruling. They are specifically referring to the data leak of some days ago that revealed personal information of GPT users that 1) was not explicitly collected and 2) was available to subjects that should not handle it (other users).
    - revelio 4y ago
      Then the Italian authorities will be pleased to know that the bug is already fixed, and thus there's nothing for them to do. Unless GDPR is now being interpreted as a general obligation to never write bugs, in which case, they will have plenty to do going after European firms because it's not like there's a shortage of buggy software in the world.
      - br1brown 4y ago
        it may have been resolved, but while making the account I - Italian - did not give consent to the dissemination of MY data, and that is not in accordance with the GDPR now I am not saying that they have to stop making use of my data, but at least notify me how and where my of phone is being used?
        revelio 4y ago
        They do notify you and explain it: https://help.openai.com/en/articles/6613520-phone-verification https://help.openai.com/en/articles/6613520-phone-verificati... This is also covered under the "consent" lawful basis part of the GDPR. The bug is not a problem. GDPR covers data leaks. If you're an EU company you have to inform your DPA within 72 hours, and the users affected. It's not illegal to have such breaches. OpenAI isn't an EU company so doesn't have a DPA, but it did notify everyone that the leak occurred anyway.
- SanderNL 4y ago
  This would be more believable if giant companies weren't already choking on every detail of every part of our lives just because you put a checkmark somewhere. Going after OpenAI seems like a move to pretend to still be relevant.
  - thefz 4y ago
    Hmmm, no. I am pretty sure giant companies had to adapt to GDPR, and any (found) violation is persecuted accordingly.
    - SanderNL 4y ago
      Yes, they added a dialog saying "we care about your privacy" and you said "SURE!".
- mattrighetti 4y ago
  > If you like to have no protection over how big corporate treats your data as your own, and ingests whatever whenever they need to profit off your personal information, be my guest. As long as they're transparent on what they're doing with the data I'm totally okay with it, nobody is forcing you to use ChatGPT.
- hollowturtle 4y ago
  ChatGPT is just a user interface over an underlying set of ai products that OpenAI has and that third parties use through an API to offer AI enhanced products. e.g. ChatGPT is banned but Bing and every other Microsoft product that integrates openai gpt model works perfectly. That move was just dumb and I suspect also political
epolanski 4y ago
I see no correlation between "being entrenched in medieval past" and verifying an internet service respects European privacy laws. If anything this news points to the opposite: that Italy takes privacy seriously in the digital world while large parts of the world are at the "who cares, they already have all my data" stage.
weberer 4y ago
They're not banning it just because its AI. They're banning it because it sends sensitive data to Microsoft without the user's consent.
- SanderNL 4y ago
  The user is doing it. They are literally typing it. They are consenting to this. We don't need "watchdogs" "protecting" us from stuff we want to do ourselves.
  - bjornsing 4y ago
    > We don't need "watchdogs" "protecting" us from stuff we want to do ourselves. I fully agree. But do Europeans in general? Where I am (Sweden) the whole point of politics seems to be to “protect” us from ourselves.
    - baxtr 4y ago
      That's actually the sad message being conveyed by this, right? "You are so dumb, you need to be protected by the state doing stupid things with your data."
      - SanderNL 4y ago
        And I get it and usually agree. Some things are dangerous, like toxic materials I don't know about and cannot know about. I expect some agency to protect me, because in this domain I am too stupid. Oh wait.. the whole world is not a developer. I can definitely see how some people need protection here. Even developers are inputting sensitive code and info about their work. Weird times.
        bjornsing 4y ago
        The difference is that no reasonable person wants to eat poison, but it’s completely rational to want to use OpenAI’s models on the terms they are offered.
ztracf 4y ago
Italy pops up quite frequently when reading about expensive specialist machinery like industrial robots or pipe laying ships. In other words, it produces real things apart from food. This is a great privacy initiative that will help Europeans focus further on things that actually matter as opposed to data mining.
bjornsing 4y ago
Over the last few decades Europe has solidified its position in the world’s museum. Italy has a leading position in this development. Satire aside, the priority in Europe is not a prosperous future — it’s social stability.
AstixAndBelix 4y ago
I bet your country is backwards and "medieval" in a bunch of places. What you said is a meaningless tautology
xdennis 4y ago
> However, I often sense that in many places, the country seems to be entrenched in its medieval past. Hear that Italians? If you don't surrender your data and your privacy to American companies you are medieval. According to some other comments, you are fascist too.
- pb7 4y ago
  Well of course it’s to American companies, it’s not like Italy or the rest of Europe is going to innovate. That’s what happens when you haven’t created anything in decades of a technology boom but people want to feel like they’re living in 2023 not 1923.
pb7 4y ago
Food that largely wasn’t even invented or popularized there. Italy’s only heritage is a lie. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35273586 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35273586

by baxtr 4y ago

thefz 4y ago

I am actually very happy about this. If you like to have no protection over how big corporate treats your data as your own, and ingests whatever whenever they need to profit off your personal information, be my guest. But I am happy to have a watchdog over my basic human rights. > However, I often sense that in many places, the country seems to be entrenched in its medieval past. It might be. But not on this front.

quadcore 4y ago
I believe this is a totally commendable position but I also believe that you're naive about this ruling. I think this is the power classes freaking out someone might be eating their lunch or discovering their dirty secrets. For example, what if some italians uses chatgpt and leak things you dont wanna know about italy? That, I believe would prompt otherwise slow-to-act politicians to jump off their rocking-chairs and start making some phone calls. Not about your neck. Just a guess.
- thefz 4y ago
  That is taking conspirationism to a whole new level.
  - quadcore 4y ago
    Okay lets take an example. Do you think the Vatican likes chatgpt? Lets ask chatgpt what he think about sex: "It is important to protect oneself during sexual activities to prevent the transmission of sexually transmitted infections (STIs) and unwanted pregnancies. Using condoms or other forms of contraception can greatly reduce the risk of transmission and unplanned pregnancy. Additionally, it is important to communicate openly and honestly with sexual partners about sexual health and STI status, and to get tested regularly for STIs, especially if one is sexually active with multiple partners. Ultimately, the decision to protect oneself during sexual activities is a personal one that depends on individual circumstances and preferences. However, it is generally recommended that individuals take steps to protect themselves and their sexual partners from potential health risks." I especially liked the "multiple partners" part didnt you?
    - thefz 4y ago
      This is information you could find way before ChatGPT, it's nothing new. Internet is full of porn since its inception as well. So? Besides, the Vatican has zero weight in decisions taken by the EU. You are dreaming.
    - mftrhu 4y ago
      ... what does the Vatican City State have to do with this decision from the Garante per la Protezione dei Dati Personali, an independent administrative authority of the Republic of Italy?
revelio 4y ago
You're talking about a website you have to specifically visit and type your personal information in to, which doesn't even ask for your name and which is simultaneously being accused of not knowing enough about you (your age). There is no "protection" needed here. If you don't like it, don't use it.
- thefz 4y ago
  I don't use it. Read the ruling. They are specifically referring to the data leak of some days ago that revealed personal information of GPT users that 1) was not explicitly collected and 2) was available to subjects that should not handle it (other users).
  - revelio 4y ago
    Then the Italian authorities will be pleased to know that the bug is already fixed, and thus there's nothing for them to do. Unless GDPR is now being interpreted as a general obligation to never write bugs, in which case, they will have plenty to do going after European firms because it's not like there's a shortage of buggy software in the world.
    - br1brown 4y ago
      it may have been resolved, but while making the account I - Italian - did not give consent to the dissemination of MY data, and that is not in accordance with the GDPR now I am not saying that they have to stop making use of my data, but at least notify me how and where my of phone is being used?
      - revelio 4y ago
        They do notify you and explain it: https://help.openai.com/en/articles/6613520-phone-verification https://help.openai.com/en/articles/6613520-phone-verificati... This is also covered under the "consent" lawful basis part of the GDPR. The bug is not a problem. GDPR covers data leaks. If you're an EU company you have to inform your DPA within 72 hours, and the users affected. It's not illegal to have such breaches. OpenAI isn't an EU company so doesn't have a DPA, but it did notify everyone that the leak occurred anyway.
SanderNL 4y ago
This would be more believable if giant companies weren't already choking on every detail of every part of our lives just because you put a checkmark somewhere. Going after OpenAI seems like a move to pretend to still be relevant.
- thefz 4y ago
  Hmmm, no. I am pretty sure giant companies had to adapt to GDPR, and any (found) violation is persecuted accordingly.
  - SanderNL 4y ago
    Yes, they added a dialog saying "we care about your privacy" and you said "SURE!".
mattrighetti 4y ago
> If you like to have no protection over how big corporate treats your data as your own, and ingests whatever whenever they need to profit off your personal information, be my guest. As long as they're transparent on what they're doing with the data I'm totally okay with it, nobody is forcing you to use ChatGPT.
hollowturtle 4y ago
ChatGPT is just a user interface over an underlying set of ai products that OpenAI has and that third parties use through an API to offer AI enhanced products. e.g. ChatGPT is banned but Bing and every other Microsoft product that integrates openai gpt model works perfectly. That move was just dumb and I suspect also political

epolanski 4y ago

I see no correlation between "being entrenched in medieval past" and verifying an internet service respects European privacy laws. If anything this news points to the opposite: that Italy takes privacy seriously in the digital world while large parts of the world are at the "who cares, they already have all my data" stage.

weberer 4y ago

They're not banning it just because its AI. They're banning it because it sends sensitive data to Microsoft without the user's consent.

SanderNL 4y ago
The user is doing it. They are literally typing it. They are consenting to this. We don't need "watchdogs" "protecting" us from stuff we want to do ourselves.
- bjornsing 4y ago
  > We don't need "watchdogs" "protecting" us from stuff we want to do ourselves. I fully agree. But do Europeans in general? Where I am (Sweden) the whole point of politics seems to be to “protect” us from ourselves.
  - baxtr 4y ago
    That's actually the sad message being conveyed by this, right? "You are so dumb, you need to be protected by the state doing stupid things with your data."
    - SanderNL 4y ago
      And I get it and usually agree. Some things are dangerous, like toxic materials I don't know about and cannot know about. I expect some agency to protect me, because in this domain I am too stupid. Oh wait.. the whole world is not a developer. I can definitely see how some people need protection here. Even developers are inputting sensitive code and info about their work. Weird times.
      - bjornsing 4y ago
        The difference is that no reasonable person wants to eat poison, but it’s completely rational to want to use OpenAI’s models on the terms they are offered.

ztracf 4y ago

Italy pops up quite frequently when reading about expensive specialist machinery like industrial robots or pipe laying ships. In other words, it produces real things apart from food. This is a great privacy initiative that will help Europeans focus further on things that actually matter as opposed to data mining.

bjornsing 4y ago

Over the last few decades Europe has solidified its position in the world’s museum. Italy has a leading position in this development. Satire aside, the priority in Europe is not a prosperous future — it’s social stability.

AstixAndBelix 4y ago

I bet your country is backwards and "medieval" in a bunch of places. What you said is a meaningless tautology

xdennis 4y ago

> However, I often sense that in many places, the country seems to be entrenched in its medieval past. Hear that Italians? If you don't surrender your data and your privacy to American companies you are medieval. According to some other comments, you are fascist too.

pb7 4y ago
Well of course it’s to American companies, it’s not like Italy or the rest of Europe is going to innovate. That’s what happens when you haven’t created anything in decades of a technology boom but people want to feel like they’re living in 2023 not 1923.

pb7 4y ago

Food that largely wasn’t even invented or popularized there. Italy’s only heritage is a lie. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35273586 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35273586