5 ms·

You are ignoring everything GDPR is about. European data, European rules.

by thefz 4y ago

PrimeMcFly 4y ago
GDPR tries to enforce its rules on servers outside of its territory. I'm still waiting to see how well that holds up in court.
- jacquesm 4y ago
  It has held up quite well so far. https://www.pinsentmasons.com/out-law/guides/international-transfers-schrems-ii-gdpr https://www.pinsentmasons.com/out-law/guides/international-t...
  - Zurrrrr 4y ago
    That link doesn't really show anything useful. I'll wait to see how it holds up when the EU tries to enforce it against a US website with no presence of any kind in the EU.
    - jacquesm 4y ago
      > I'll wait to see how it holds up when the EU tries to enforce it against a US website with no presence of any kind in the EU. That's called moving the goalposts. But even in that case: the EU has a lot of power and no matter what you are still required to have a legal presence in the EU if you want to serve EU customers. Breaking the law is generally not the best course of action for any company that wants to stay in business over the longer term.
      - Zurrrrr 4y ago
        > That's called moving the goalposts. No, it isn't. That's the test. > no matter what you are still required to have a legal presence in the EU if you want to serve EU customers. That's nonsense. There is nothing stopping EU citizens from buying something via my US based website while they are in the EU, and I have no obligation to have any kind of presence in the EU.
        jacquesm 4y ago
        > That's nonsense. There is nothing stopping EU citizens from buying something via my US based website while they are in the EU, and I have no obligation to have any kind of presence in the EU. Ignorance of the law is not an excuse for breaking the law. https://ico.org.uk/for-organisations/dp-at-the-end-of-the-transition-period/data-protection-and-the-eu-in-detail/the-uk-gdpr/european-representatives/ https://ico.org.uk/for-organisations/dp-at-the-end-of-the-tr... https://gdpr-info.eu/art-27-gdpr/ https://gdpr-info.eu/art-27-gdpr/ You seem to be arguing from how you believe it should work or how you think it works without knowing how it actually works, which is quite important when you are operating a business.
        th18row 4y ago
        He's right though, the EU can do nothing in that case. Quite literally nothing. There is no law to abide because you don't "care" about it and there are no consequences. Practicality > useless laws
        Zurrrrr 4y ago
        Yup, that's the whole point. The Deloitte page I linked to gives a Chinese web store located in China with no EU presence as an example. It's bonkers that the EU thinks they can enforce their laws in a situation like that. But then, that's why it hasn't been tested. It's basically a 'feel good' law with no teeth (at least the extraterritorial aspects).
        th18row 4y ago
        That's correct, there'no possible enforcement. I think the beaurocrats in the EU don't even know what they are doing with most of the policies or "fines" they try to impose. It will drive Europe to a sort of digital isolationism where offshore companies will either a) dismiss and continue b) cease operations there.
        PrimeMcFly 4y ago
      - th18row 4y ago
        [flagged]
        jacquesm 4y ago
        > In the grand scheme of things, the EU is irrelevant. The disconnect on display in this thread is something else.
        th18row 4y ago
        [flagged]
        Zurrrrr 4y ago
        Exactly. The only thing the EU can do, barring specific agreements with countries that would allow for more, is bar service from a website to the Eu region. And then if EU users want to, they will just bypass that with a VPN...and then the law is still being violated, and still can't be enforced.
    - thefz 4y ago
      > I'll wait to see how it holds up when the EU tries to enforce it against a US website with no presence of any kind in the EU. That's baseless rambling, sorry.
      - Zurrrrr 4y ago
        Nothing baseless about it at all, and it certainly isn't rambling. Do you have anything to contribute other than misguided insults?
- thefz 4y ago
  Nobody is touching other countries' servers. Not even close. Companies can either adapt to the ruling or take their business elsewhere.
  - Zurrrrr 4y ago
    > Nobody is touching other countries' servers. Not even close. No one claimed otherwise. It's still fascinating (and, I believe, a first) that the EU thinks they have extraterritorial jurisdiction just because their citizens are affected.
    - amadvance 4y ago
      It's not extraterritorial. If an international company wants to sell goods or services in a country, it must abide by the country's laws.
      - PrimeMcFly 4y ago
        Nope. If I want to sell data in the EU, I can. I'm not subject to their laws unless I have a presence there. GDPR tries to change that. See https://www2.deloitte.com/ch/en/pages/risk/articles/gdpr-extraterritorial-applicability.html https://www2.deloitte.com/ch/en/pages/risk/articles/gdpr-ext...
        yibg 4y ago
        Why is shipping data different? If a certain drug is illegal in the country but not yours do you think you should be allow to sell and ship the drug over?
        Zurrrrr 4y ago
        I mean, drugs would be a problem in both the sending and receiving country, often for both sender and receiver if caught. This is more like me deciding to try and sue people in other countries because they said something I didn't like on the internet.
- moooo99 4y ago
  It’s not trying to do that. It’s trying to regulate the data collection and processing of users in its territory. On the other hand, CLOUD act was trying to regulate data on foreign servers.
  - PrimeMcFly 4y ago
    The GDPR act clearly does state that though, so if they are not trying to do that, why did they try to give themselves the authority? This isn't just my take by the way, it's common knowledge and was the cause for much discussion and speculation.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

You are ignoring everything GDPR is about. European data, European rules.

by thefz 4y ago

You are ignoring everything GDPR is about. European data, European rules.

GDPR tries to enforce its rules on servers outside of its territory. I'm still waiting to see how well that holds up in court.

jacquesm 4y ago
It has held up quite well so far. https://www.pinsentmasons.com/out-law/guides/international-transfers-schrems-ii-gdpr https://www.pinsentmasons.com/out-law/guides/international-t...
- Zurrrrr 4y ago
  That link doesn't really show anything useful. I'll wait to see how it holds up when the EU tries to enforce it against a US website with no presence of any kind in the EU.
  - jacquesm 4y ago
    > I'll wait to see how it holds up when the EU tries to enforce it against a US website with no presence of any kind in the EU. That's called moving the goalposts. But even in that case: the EU has a lot of power and no matter what you are still required to have a legal presence in the EU if you want to serve EU customers. Breaking the law is generally not the best course of action for any company that wants to stay in business over the longer term.
    - Zurrrrr 4y ago
      > That's called moving the goalposts. No, it isn't. That's the test. > no matter what you are still required to have a legal presence in the EU if you want to serve EU customers. That's nonsense. There is nothing stopping EU citizens from buying something via my US based website while they are in the EU, and I have no obligation to have any kind of presence in the EU.
      - jacquesm 4y ago
        > That's nonsense. There is nothing stopping EU citizens from buying something via my US based website while they are in the EU, and I have no obligation to have any kind of presence in the EU. Ignorance of the law is not an excuse for breaking the law. https://ico.org.uk/for-organisations/dp-at-the-end-of-the-transition-period/data-protection-and-the-eu-in-detail/the-uk-gdpr/european-representatives/ https://ico.org.uk/for-organisations/dp-at-the-end-of-the-tr... https://gdpr-info.eu/art-27-gdpr/ https://gdpr-info.eu/art-27-gdpr/ You seem to be arguing from how you believe it should work or how you think it works without knowing how it actually works, which is quite important when you are operating a business.
        th18row 4y ago
        He's right though, the EU can do nothing in that case. Quite literally nothing. There is no law to abide because you don't "care" about it and there are no consequences. Practicality > useless laws
        Zurrrrr 4y ago
        Yup, that's the whole point. The Deloitte page I linked to gives a Chinese web store located in China with no EU presence as an example. It's bonkers that the EU thinks they can enforce their laws in a situation like that. But then, that's why it hasn't been tested. It's basically a 'feel good' law with no teeth (at least the extraterritorial aspects).
        th18row 4y ago
        That's correct, there'no possible enforcement. I think the beaurocrats in the EU don't even know what they are doing with most of the policies or "fines" they try to impose. It will drive Europe to a sort of digital isolationism where offshore companies will either a) dismiss and continue b) cease operations there.
        PrimeMcFly 4y ago
    - th18row 4y ago
      [flagged]
      - jacquesm 4y ago
        > In the grand scheme of things, the EU is irrelevant. The disconnect on display in this thread is something else.
        th18row 4y ago
        [flagged]
      - Zurrrrr 4y ago
        Exactly. The only thing the EU can do, barring specific agreements with countries that would allow for more, is bar service from a website to the Eu region. And then if EU users want to, they will just bypass that with a VPN...and then the law is still being violated, and still can't be enforced.
  - thefz 4y ago
    > I'll wait to see how it holds up when the EU tries to enforce it against a US website with no presence of any kind in the EU. That's baseless rambling, sorry.
    - Zurrrrr 4y ago
      Nothing baseless about it at all, and it certainly isn't rambling. Do you have anything to contribute other than misguided insults?
thefz 4y ago
Nobody is touching other countries' servers. Not even close. Companies can either adapt to the ruling or take their business elsewhere.
- Zurrrrr 4y ago
  > Nobody is touching other countries' servers. Not even close. No one claimed otherwise. It's still fascinating (and, I believe, a first) that the EU thinks they have extraterritorial jurisdiction just because their citizens are affected.
  - amadvance 4y ago
    It's not extraterritorial. If an international company wants to sell goods or services in a country, it must abide by the country's laws.
    - PrimeMcFly 4y ago
      Nope. If I want to sell data in the EU, I can. I'm not subject to their laws unless I have a presence there. GDPR tries to change that. See https://www2.deloitte.com/ch/en/pages/risk/articles/gdpr-extraterritorial-applicability.html https://www2.deloitte.com/ch/en/pages/risk/articles/gdpr-ext...
      - yibg 4y ago
        Why is shipping data different? If a certain drug is illegal in the country but not yours do you think you should be allow to sell and ship the drug over?
        Zurrrrr 4y ago
        I mean, drugs would be a problem in both the sending and receiving country, often for both sender and receiver if caught. This is more like me deciding to try and sue people in other countries because they said something I didn't like on the internet.
moooo99 4y ago
It’s not trying to do that. It’s trying to regulate the data collection and processing of users in its territory. On the other hand, CLOUD act was trying to regulate data on foreign servers.
- PrimeMcFly 4y ago
  The GDPR act clearly does state that though, so if they are not trying to do that, why did they try to give themselves the authority? This isn't just my take by the way, it's common knowledge and was the cause for much discussion and speculation.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]