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One thing that is very important to realize after being laid-off from a very big company during a recession is that you need to adjust your salary expectations

One thing that is very important to realize after being laid-off from a very big company during a recession is that you need to adjust your salary expectations for the new reality. And the other thing is that you should have been prepared for this a long, long time ago. Economic cycles are a thing, it is in all history books, there's no excuse for not being aware of them. I have always been very very conservative with my expenses, I don't expect the situation where I make hundreds of thousands of dollars an year as a developer something that will go on forever. They are out there to get you, you are not a business guy with connections, probably you came from a working class family, if they can, they will take the rug out of your feet. So, don't get too excited thinking that making 300k an year (or even 400, 500, whatever) by itself means you're rich now. Income by itself is not wealth if you don't save it. You really don't need a Peloton bike and other conspicuous consumption signs.

mrweasel 4y ago
Last year I took a $15.000 a year pay cut, for a job I really wanted, and that's more aligned with my ideals. It didn't effect our home economy in any meaningful way and I wasn't making anything close to the salaries I've seen people on HN expect (closer to $100K). If we get to a point, and I'm not sure we're quite there yet, where the big tech companies, startups and other VC funded ventures can't absorb the layoff, then yes, you're absolutely correct. People need to adjust their expectations. $100K - 150K is a pretty comfortable salary in most areas. If you expect $300K to maintain your current lifestyle, you really need to think about scaling back. It may never be an issue, but if it does, you're better prepared and will have a sizable saving for those rainy days.
- JeremyNT 4y ago
  HN is such a bubble sometimes. Hearing the problems of 250k/yr+ programmers is so completely strange. I know there are a lot of us programmers and tech workers working in non profits, government, education, or in small but sustainable businesses. I'm resigned to making well under what HN would consider a junior level salary, but in exchange I get to work at a place with a mission I can believe in, and I still have a comfortable lifestyle. Maybe we're doing it wrong? I could probably double my salary at some VC funded company, after all. But in threads like this I do wonder if mo money means mo problems.
x3iv130f 4y ago
I couldn't agree more. Actual wealth comes from having ownership in wealth generating assets. You can act rich for a season off of a big paycheck but you'll soon be back to poverty if your money isn't converted into value generating assets.
bradlys 4y ago
> You really don't need a Peloton bike and other conspicuous consumption signs. This kind of just general bashing on tech people is so conceited. You're acting like a $2,000 stationary bike is really worth fussing over when you're making $400-500k/yr. Very few people at these incomes in tech are living month to month. They're overall saving a fuckload even if they own a 911.
- p0pcult 4y ago
  Go to the local gym and work on actual social networking. Peloton is just goofy.
  - standardUser 4y ago
    Don't talk to me at the gym. People don't generally like that.
  - tester756 4y ago
    What makes you think he needs to work on his social networking?
  - KyeRussell 4y ago
    It sounds like you’ve got so much of a chip on your shoulder that it’s resulted in you giving advice that’s objectively awful.
- elzbardico 4y ago
  It is not bashing man. As I explained elsewhere this is just a symbol. I am not that young anymore, and I've seen this play have been played a few times now: boom and bust, boom and bust, and to make things worse, now it looks like our wheater supercharged by global warming: faster and more violent swings. You'd get surprised how fast people can spend money while looking financially healthy. More so when they live in places with insanely high Cost of Living, like London, NYC or the Bay Area. The Peloton is just a symbol of overconsumption, maybe unfair, maybe inexact, but an useful symbol anyway. It usually comes along with the multi-million mortgage, a lot of the wealth in papers that can get marked to zero overnight. Then you have all the expenses that come with an expensive lifestyle: lavish trips, expensive restaurants, maybe a boat, maybe a couple of very expensive to maintain german cars. And did I mention the multi-million 30 years mortgage that could also become underwater? I've been there in the past, done that, get some sleepless night thinking not about the next month, but about the next year, and they year after that one. By sheer luck I've avoided the worse, but I got the lesson that you need to respect your money, as much as you have of it, it is not infinite. Buying something just because it looks inexpensive compared to your income is not a good idea.
pcorsaro 4y ago
I don't think we're in a recession. At least not yet. I think your point about salary expectations is kind of interesting though. In my industry (restaurant disposables), we're going through a big price "reset" right now. Almost all of our pricing is trending towards where it was before everything started going crazy in 2021. Maybe tech salaries are heading the same way?
closeparen 4y ago
>You really don't need a Peloton bike and other conspicuous consumption signs. It would be quite hard for frivolous spending to become a problem on levels.fyi money. What you really have to watch out for is things like buying a house or starting a family. Not only are they much larger in absolute terms, but you must sustain them at the same quantity every month for decades. Nothing is easy or pleasant to cut back on, but frivolous stuff is much easier. This dynamic is an important reason for the "perpetual childhood" people complain about in the educated urban classes. Because real estate is so expensive, it is legitimately much easier to access "fun" stuff than to have the kind of security needed to pay a mortgage for 30 years. The two don't even trade off against each other that meaningfully. $9-12k/mo mortgage and property tax payments buy a lot of toys, travel, and fancy dinners!
- operatingthetan 4y ago
  I have a friend who works at Meta working on the Metaverse as a TPM and they just sold their house and bought one twice as large (and expensive). I've warned them it's a risky situation but they didn't agree. They remain employed but if I were in that situation I'd be pulling my hair out. On the other hand my house is 1/3 the size and I could pay the mortgage working retail if I had to. I'm worried about a bunch of friends who bought big houses that required faang incomes for 30 years if the tech market turns and doesn't return for long periods of time.
  - closeparen 4y ago
    Absolutely! Committing to an ongoing expense based on your earning power in the peak of a cycle is crazy. The only way to justify something like that is if you're paying for (almost) all of it upfront. But even then the upside potentially is probably higher in stocks than in Bay Area real estate at this point.
    - rg111 4y ago
      In my early 20s. Bought a lot of expensive stuff in the last few months. Didn’t get laid off, but I am scared as hell about the economy/present situation. Now I wish I saved 70-80% of the money instead of spending them.
thih9 4y ago
> Economic cycles are a thing, it is in all history books, there's no excuse for not being aware of them. Not reading history books sounds like a good excuse in this scenario.
peter303 4y ago
Since software hasnt has a major layoff since 2002, there are plenty of under 42 year olds who thought tech was layoff proof.

mrweasel 4y ago

Last year I took a $15.000 a year pay cut, for a job I really wanted, and that's more aligned with my ideals. It didn't effect our home economy in any meaningful way and I wasn't making anything close to the salaries I've seen people on HN expect (closer to $100K). If we get to a point, and I'm not sure we're quite there yet, where the big tech companies, startups and other VC funded ventures can't absorb the layoff, then yes, you're absolutely correct. People need to adjust their expectations. $100K - 150K is a pretty comfortable salary in most areas. If you expect $300K to maintain your current lifestyle, you really need to think about scaling back. It may never be an issue, but if it does, you're better prepared and will have a sizable saving for those rainy days.

JeremyNT 4y ago
HN is such a bubble sometimes. Hearing the problems of 250k/yr+ programmers is so completely strange. I know there are a lot of us programmers and tech workers working in non profits, government, education, or in small but sustainable businesses. I'm resigned to making well under what HN would consider a junior level salary, but in exchange I get to work at a place with a mission I can believe in, and I still have a comfortable lifestyle. Maybe we're doing it wrong? I could probably double my salary at some VC funded company, after all. But in threads like this I do wonder if mo money means mo problems.

x3iv130f 4y ago

I couldn't agree more. Actual wealth comes from having ownership in wealth generating assets. You can act rich for a season off of a big paycheck but you'll soon be back to poverty if your money isn't converted into value generating assets.

bradlys 4y ago

> You really don't need a Peloton bike and other conspicuous consumption signs. This kind of just general bashing on tech people is so conceited. You're acting like a $2,000 stationary bike is really worth fussing over when you're making $400-500k/yr. Very few people at these incomes in tech are living month to month. They're overall saving a fuckload even if they own a 911.

p0pcult 4y ago
Go to the local gym and work on actual social networking. Peloton is just goofy.
- standardUser 4y ago
  Don't talk to me at the gym. People don't generally like that.
- tester756 4y ago
  What makes you think he needs to work on his social networking?
- KyeRussell 4y ago
  It sounds like you’ve got so much of a chip on your shoulder that it’s resulted in you giving advice that’s objectively awful.
elzbardico 4y ago
It is not bashing man. As I explained elsewhere this is just a symbol. I am not that young anymore, and I've seen this play have been played a few times now: boom and bust, boom and bust, and to make things worse, now it looks like our wheater supercharged by global warming: faster and more violent swings. You'd get surprised how fast people can spend money while looking financially healthy. More so when they live in places with insanely high Cost of Living, like London, NYC or the Bay Area. The Peloton is just a symbol of overconsumption, maybe unfair, maybe inexact, but an useful symbol anyway. It usually comes along with the multi-million mortgage, a lot of the wealth in papers that can get marked to zero overnight. Then you have all the expenses that come with an expensive lifestyle: lavish trips, expensive restaurants, maybe a boat, maybe a couple of very expensive to maintain german cars. And did I mention the multi-million 30 years mortgage that could also become underwater? I've been there in the past, done that, get some sleepless night thinking not about the next month, but about the next year, and they year after that one. By sheer luck I've avoided the worse, but I got the lesson that you need to respect your money, as much as you have of it, it is not infinite. Buying something just because it looks inexpensive compared to your income is not a good idea.

pcorsaro 4y ago

I don't think we're in a recession. At least not yet. I think your point about salary expectations is kind of interesting though. In my industry (restaurant disposables), we're going through a big price "reset" right now. Almost all of our pricing is trending towards where it was before everything started going crazy in 2021. Maybe tech salaries are heading the same way?

closeparen 4y ago

>You really don't need a Peloton bike and other conspicuous consumption signs. It would be quite hard for frivolous spending to become a problem on levels.fyi money. What you really have to watch out for is things like buying a house or starting a family. Not only are they much larger in absolute terms, but you must sustain them at the same quantity every month for decades. Nothing is easy or pleasant to cut back on, but frivolous stuff is much easier. This dynamic is an important reason for the "perpetual childhood" people complain about in the educated urban classes. Because real estate is so expensive, it is legitimately much easier to access "fun" stuff than to have the kind of security needed to pay a mortgage for 30 years. The two don't even trade off against each other that meaningfully. $9-12k/mo mortgage and property tax payments buy a lot of toys, travel, and fancy dinners!

operatingthetan 4y ago
I have a friend who works at Meta working on the Metaverse as a TPM and they just sold their house and bought one twice as large (and expensive). I've warned them it's a risky situation but they didn't agree. They remain employed but if I were in that situation I'd be pulling my hair out. On the other hand my house is 1/3 the size and I could pay the mortgage working retail if I had to. I'm worried about a bunch of friends who bought big houses that required faang incomes for 30 years if the tech market turns and doesn't return for long periods of time.
- closeparen 4y ago
  Absolutely! Committing to an ongoing expense based on your earning power in the peak of a cycle is crazy. The only way to justify something like that is if you're paying for (almost) all of it upfront. But even then the upside potentially is probably higher in stocks than in Bay Area real estate at this point.
  - rg111 4y ago
    In my early 20s. Bought a lot of expensive stuff in the last few months. Didn’t get laid off, but I am scared as hell about the economy/present situation. Now I wish I saved 70-80% of the money instead of spending them.

thih9 4y ago

> Economic cycles are a thing, it is in all history books, there's no excuse for not being aware of them. Not reading history books sounds like a good excuse in this scenario.

peter303 4y ago

Since software hasnt has a major layoff since 2002, there are plenty of under 42 year olds who thought tech was layoff proof.