4 ms·

I can't believe it's the year 2012 and we still can't do Game Distribution correctly. Despite the fact that Steam knows how long we've played a game or if we'v

I can't believe it's the year 2012 and we still can't do Game Distribution correctly. Despite the fact that Steam knows how long we've played a game or if we've even launched it, we can't get refunds on games that don't work. THIS is what's hurting PC gaming. If I buy a microwave from Walmart and it doesn't work in my house for whatever reason, I can take it back and get a refund. But if I buy a PC game from Steam, Games for Windows, Best Buy, and it doesn't work, I'm fucked. Which is basically a scam. Period. How can publishers expect consumers to pay for games when they have no guarantee that it will work?

alttag 15y ago
Only mostly a scam. I've had some experiences that suggest if you push hard enough you can get what you want. Years ago I purchased Neverwinter Nights (the first one) from a big box. Best Buy, I think. Despite my computer technically meeting the minimum specs on the box, the game didn't work well. (About 1 frame/3 seconds. I found out later my brand of graphics card was specifically excluded.) When I returned it (opened, of course), they initially attempted to refuse the return on the grounds the product had been opened. After some prodding and asking them to explain how I might otherwise discover the product they sold me was defective/not as advertised without opening it, they eventually chose to refund my money. $50 is certainly less of a hassle to them than a consumer protection complaint to a government agency.
masklinn 15y ago
> Despite the fact that Steam knows how long we've played a game Steam is generally wrong about that, so it's not of much help.
- freehunter 15y ago
  In my experience, Steam is only wrong occasionally if I launch the game without Steam open first. Do you have a different experience?
  - chris11 15y ago
    I don't think Steam would be totally reliable for playtime if it was applied to refunds. A few months ago I used ccleaner and screwed up my graphics driver. I was trying to play a game that I had just bought, but after my mishap with ccleaner it never worked for me, though I did add a couple hours to my total playtime. I fixed my computer by reinstalling windows, but if the problem was with the game, my play time counter alone would not accurately reflect the fact that the game was unplayable.
ctdonath 15y ago
How can customers expect publishers to refund for games when they (publisher) have no guarantee it didn't work? If you buy a microwave, returning it the next day (and a glance at the product) Walmart is pretty sure that it was not used for hours on end until it wasn't needed. Games (and other products/media) suffer from a tendency of [some] customers to use/abuse the product and its return policy. Buy a game, play it thru for 24 hours straight (or copy it), and then return it as "defective" - not uncommon behavior. Maybe not majority, but enough do it for retailers to impose limitations akin to what clothing stores do by requiring tags still be attached: returnable for refund if in a condition which indicates it in no way was used in an manner taking advantage of the retailer's return policy. Enough people _do_ try to abuse return policies that, yeah, it wrecks it for the rest of us. Hey, maybe there's a startup opportunity for verifying "the game was used in a manner which indicates there was a problem whereby a full-refund return is fair." Steam may not have an interest in such a service directly given its overall profit, but if someone can provide a third-party verification service...
- graywh 15y ago
  Most major retailers only allow exchanges for the same item in the case of opened media (DVD, video game, etc.).
- Silhouette 15y ago
  > How can customers expect publishers to refund for games when they (publisher) have no guarantee it didn't work? Well, under UK consumer protection law, goods normally have to meet certain basic guarantees, such as fitness for purpose. Moreover, the presumption is that if they fail within the first few months after the purchase, it's the vendor's problem unless the vendor can show why it shouldn't be. It might seem harsh, but that is what the consumer protection laws here say, and it's a cost of doing business here. I don't see why the same principle should not apply at least as strongly to software, particularly given that software is often relatively expensive, very often of poor quality/compatibility in ways that aren't clear to the purchaser up-front, and usually issuing a refund in such cases will cause very little actual damage to the vendor beyond losing the price of the sale. Surely this all goes at least double for a service where the vendor is providing the software entirely on-line, so their actual damage from issuing a refund is nothing but the admin overhead, and where the vendor can see whether the user has actually been able to run the software effectively as a defence against fraudulent refund claims.
sliverstorm 15y ago
THIS is what's hurting PC gaming That seems overly dramatic and quite inaccurate. Non-functional games are very low on the very short list of reasons why 'Steam is everything wrong with the PC game industry'.

alttag 15y ago

Only mostly a scam. I've had some experiences that suggest if you push hard enough you can get what you want. Years ago I purchased Neverwinter Nights (the first one) from a big box. Best Buy, I think. Despite my computer technically meeting the minimum specs on the box, the game didn't work well. (About 1 frame/3 seconds. I found out later my brand of graphics card was specifically excluded.) When I returned it (opened, of course), they initially attempted to refuse the return on the grounds the product had been opened. After some prodding and asking them to explain how I might otherwise discover the product they sold me was defective/not as advertised without opening it, they eventually chose to refund my money. $50 is certainly less of a hassle to them than a consumer protection complaint to a government agency.

masklinn 15y ago

> Despite the fact that Steam knows how long we've played a game Steam is generally wrong about that, so it's not of much help.

freehunter 15y ago
In my experience, Steam is only wrong occasionally if I launch the game without Steam open first. Do you have a different experience?
- chris11 15y ago
  I don't think Steam would be totally reliable for playtime if it was applied to refunds. A few months ago I used ccleaner and screwed up my graphics driver. I was trying to play a game that I had just bought, but after my mishap with ccleaner it never worked for me, though I did add a couple hours to my total playtime. I fixed my computer by reinstalling windows, but if the problem was with the game, my play time counter alone would not accurately reflect the fact that the game was unplayable.

ctdonath 15y ago

How can customers expect publishers to refund for games when they (publisher) have no guarantee it didn't work? If you buy a microwave, returning it the next day (and a glance at the product) Walmart is pretty sure that it was not used for hours on end until it wasn't needed. Games (and other products/media) suffer from a tendency of [some] customers to use/abuse the product and its return policy. Buy a game, play it thru for 24 hours straight (or copy it), and then return it as "defective" - not uncommon behavior. Maybe not majority, but enough do it for retailers to impose limitations akin to what clothing stores do by requiring tags still be attached: returnable for refund if in a condition which indicates it in no way was used in an manner taking advantage of the retailer's return policy. Enough people _do_ try to abuse return policies that, yeah, it wrecks it for the rest of us. Hey, maybe there's a startup opportunity for verifying "the game was used in a manner which indicates there was a problem whereby a full-refund return is fair." Steam may not have an interest in such a service directly given its overall profit, but if someone can provide a third-party verification service...

graywh 15y ago
Most major retailers only allow exchanges for the same item in the case of opened media (DVD, video game, etc.).
Silhouette 15y ago
> How can customers expect publishers to refund for games when they (publisher) have no guarantee it didn't work? Well, under UK consumer protection law, goods normally have to meet certain basic guarantees, such as fitness for purpose. Moreover, the presumption is that if they fail within the first few months after the purchase, it's the vendor's problem unless the vendor can show why it shouldn't be. It might seem harsh, but that is what the consumer protection laws here say, and it's a cost of doing business here. I don't see why the same principle should not apply at least as strongly to software, particularly given that software is often relatively expensive, very often of poor quality/compatibility in ways that aren't clear to the purchaser up-front, and usually issuing a refund in such cases will cause very little actual damage to the vendor beyond losing the price of the sale. Surely this all goes at least double for a service where the vendor is providing the software entirely on-line, so their actual damage from issuing a refund is nothing but the admin overhead, and where the vendor can see whether the user has actually been able to run the software effectively as a defence against fraudulent refund claims.

sliverstorm 15y ago

THIS is what's hurting PC gaming That seems overly dramatic and quite inaccurate. Non-functional games are very low on the very short list of reasons why 'Steam is everything wrong with the PC game industry'.