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By moving to IE9 he's discounting all corporate customers who haven't moved to Windows 7 yet. This leaves them with only one option if they want support on a l

By moving to IE9 he's discounting all corporate customers who haven't moved to Windows 7 yet. This leaves them with only one option if they want support on a long-term supported browser, which is the recently shipped Firefox Enterprise Support Release.

helipad 15y ago
Except there are no customers. It's a new product, and if you want to use it then you'll need an up to date browser. No-one is being cut off.
WildUtah 15y ago
>>>By moving to IE9 he's discounting all corporate customers who haven't moved to Windows 7 yet. Nonsense. Chrome and Firefox will both run on XP.
- AndrewDucker 15y ago
  You'll notice the second sentence there, which talks about Firefox ESR as the only option if they want a long-term supported browser. Many large corporations will not switch to a browser which updates itself more often than they can easily test it against all of their internal apps.
  - adhipg 15y ago
    Is the Google Chrome Frame for IE an alternative option for such users?
    - AndrewDucker 15y ago
      Sadly not, unless specifically allowed by the IT department. I certainly can't download EXEs past our firewall.
      - sek 15y ago
        These are very easy to disable(i mean avoid), i don't assume they decode everything what would be very expensive. Just upload the exe file somewhere as .jpg and rename it again after you download it. ... but we are on hacker news, you probably know that yourself ;-) what's the problem? I never worked under such conditions, can they prevent you from executing not white-listed exe files?
        AndrewDucker 15y ago
        "These are very easy to disable" That would be a sacking offence.
  - batista 15y ago
    Those corporations tend to be a pain to work, have lots of internal crap apps, and don't use external stuff like Basecamp anyway. Good riddance.
    - dsr_ 15y ago
      They include banks and other very-security-conscious folk... with money to spend on easily deployable apps that address their needs. Feel free not to go after them as customers, though.
    - untog 15y ago
      They also have a ton of money. You might not want any of it, but some do. Continuing to support IE7/8 for that reason makes sense.
    - batista 15y ago
      They include banks and other very-security-conscious folk... with money to spend on easily deployable apps that address their needs. Feel free not to go after them as customers, though. Are you kidding me? Most banks wouldn't touch an external service like Basecamp with a ten-foot pool. Basecamp is not "deployable", it's externally hosted. They also have a ton of money. You might not want any of it, but some do. Every company does not necessarily fit into the "some" that do. Everybody has money, it's "how possible it is for them to part with it" VS "what your company has to do to make them give it to you", that matters. If you don't understand the notion of "opportunity cost", you shouldn't be running a business.
melling 15y ago
Sounds like they simply want to remove as much legacy as possible in the new product. The old product will still work. They are "skating to where the the puck is going to be..." in a year or so.
batista 15y ago
By moving to IE9 he's discounting all corporate customers who haven't moved to Windows 7 yet. Better framed: he's discounting all the corporate customers who drag their feet technology wise, and will give him more headache than money. Such corporate late adopters are not usually the ones to use something external, much less Basecamp, anyway.
billpatrianakos 15y ago
It's totally necessary though. Developer's can't be supporting old browsers forever. And really, when we speak of "old browsers" we really just mean IE which still throws weird behaviors at you in the latest versions! When enough sites stop supporting these dinosaurs we not only give users a better experience on our sites but across the entire web. Corporate customers can always use Chrome or Firefox on XP and if they can't then there's still Basecamp Classic for them. I think they're doing the right thing. It's a calculated risk and I think the odds are in their favor.
- untog 15y ago
  It's totally necessary though. Developer's can't be supporting old browsers forever. It's not really our choice, though. If you run an online shopping site and 40% of your customers use IE7, you should support IE7. Urge them to upgrade, sure, but if you want to actually make money you're going to have to bite the bullet and deal with old browsers.
  - dmethvin 15y ago
    Yep, it really comes down to money. If you are running a consumer retail site that gets traffic from Fortune 500 employees buying stuff on their lunch hour, you will either support IE7 or lose business. Sure IE7 has problems, but they are well known problems at this point. An experienced web designer should know how to deal with them to give IE7 users a degraded but functional experience.
    - billpatrianakos 15y ago
      Yeah, true. I just have this dream that all web developers will band together to stop supporting "problem" browsers forcing users and browser makers to fall in line. I mean, correct me if I come off as a spoiled brat but I think they should be making browsers to suit how we build sites and not how they want us to develop them.
      - hello_moto 15y ago
jamesgeck0 15y ago
IE9 runs on Vista.

helipad 15y ago

Except there are no customers. It's a new product, and if you want to use it then you'll need an up to date browser. No-one is being cut off.

WildUtah 15y ago

>>>By moving to IE9 he's discounting all corporate customers who haven't moved to Windows 7 yet. Nonsense. Chrome and Firefox will both run on XP.

AndrewDucker 15y ago
You'll notice the second sentence there, which talks about Firefox ESR as the only option if they want a long-term supported browser. Many large corporations will not switch to a browser which updates itself more often than they can easily test it against all of their internal apps.
- adhipg 15y ago
  Is the Google Chrome Frame for IE an alternative option for such users?
  - AndrewDucker 15y ago
    Sadly not, unless specifically allowed by the IT department. I certainly can't download EXEs past our firewall.
    - sek 15y ago
      These are very easy to disable(i mean avoid), i don't assume they decode everything what would be very expensive. Just upload the exe file somewhere as .jpg and rename it again after you download it. ... but we are on hacker news, you probably know that yourself ;-) what's the problem? I never worked under such conditions, can they prevent you from executing not white-listed exe files?
      - AndrewDucker 15y ago
        "These are very easy to disable" That would be a sacking offence.
- batista 15y ago
  Those corporations tend to be a pain to work, have lots of internal crap apps, and don't use external stuff like Basecamp anyway. Good riddance.
  - dsr_ 15y ago
    They include banks and other very-security-conscious folk... with money to spend on easily deployable apps that address their needs. Feel free not to go after them as customers, though.
  - untog 15y ago
    They also have a ton of money. You might not want any of it, but some do. Continuing to support IE7/8 for that reason makes sense.
  - batista 15y ago
    They include banks and other very-security-conscious folk... with money to spend on easily deployable apps that address their needs. Feel free not to go after them as customers, though. Are you kidding me? Most banks wouldn't touch an external service like Basecamp with a ten-foot pool. Basecamp is not "deployable", it's externally hosted. They also have a ton of money. You might not want any of it, but some do. Every company does not necessarily fit into the "some" that do. Everybody has money, it's "how possible it is for them to part with it" VS "what your company has to do to make them give it to you", that matters. If you don't understand the notion of "opportunity cost", you shouldn't be running a business.

melling 15y ago

Sounds like they simply want to remove as much legacy as possible in the new product. The old product will still work. They are "skating to where the the puck is going to be..." in a year or so.

batista 15y ago

By moving to IE9 he's discounting all corporate customers who haven't moved to Windows 7 yet. Better framed: he's discounting all the corporate customers who drag their feet technology wise, and will give him more headache than money. Such corporate late adopters are not usually the ones to use something external, much less Basecamp, anyway.

billpatrianakos 15y ago

It's totally necessary though. Developer's can't be supporting old browsers forever. And really, when we speak of "old browsers" we really just mean IE which still throws weird behaviors at you in the latest versions! When enough sites stop supporting these dinosaurs we not only give users a better experience on our sites but across the entire web. Corporate customers can always use Chrome or Firefox on XP and if they can't then there's still Basecamp Classic for them. I think they're doing the right thing. It's a calculated risk and I think the odds are in their favor.

untog 15y ago
It's totally necessary though. Developer's can't be supporting old browsers forever. It's not really our choice, though. If you run an online shopping site and 40% of your customers use IE7, you should support IE7. Urge them to upgrade, sure, but if you want to actually make money you're going to have to bite the bullet and deal with old browsers.
- dmethvin 15y ago
  Yep, it really comes down to money. If you are running a consumer retail site that gets traffic from Fortune 500 employees buying stuff on their lunch hour, you will either support IE7 or lose business. Sure IE7 has problems, but they are well known problems at this point. An experienced web designer should know how to deal with them to give IE7 users a degraded but functional experience.
  - billpatrianakos 15y ago
    Yeah, true. I just have this dream that all web developers will band together to stop supporting "problem" browsers forcing users and browser makers to fall in line. I mean, correct me if I come off as a spoiled brat but I think they should be making browsers to suit how we build sites and not how they want us to develop them.
    - hello_moto 15y ago

jamesgeck0 15y ago

IE9 runs on Vista.