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> describe or comment on the nature of the charges against Trump. To be fair to the commenters, most stories are vague. That's because the charges haven't been
by ncallaway 4y ago
> describe or comment on the nature of the charges against Trump. To be fair to the commenters, most stories are vague.
That's because the charges haven't been announced yet. The facts that we know are that a grand jury has voted to indict Donald Trump and has delivered a True Bill to the prosecutors.
The indictment is at this moment sealed. It should be unsealed shortly (speculation was a timeline of tonight/tomorrow, but I could also see it being early next week).
So, it's not known publicly what the specific charges are. Which is why people haven't described them in this thread. They're not yet known.
> most stories are vague.
This is partly because there's not a lot of information, but it's also because the news media needs to pump out an endless amount of content around this story (since it's both historic, and they have a profit incentive to keep people reading/watching), but there's really only a few paragraphs* of information that's currently available or relevant.
> It sounds like they have to prove two separate crimes, and connect them with intention. Intent of course is always hard to prove in court.
The speculated charges (which, again, are speculation, not the known public charges) involve a crime which is, on its own, a misdemeanor. The crime becomes a felony if it was committed with intent to commit another crime.
So, if (and again, this is a big if, since it's not the actual charges, just speculation) the prosecutors are going down that road, they don't actually have to prove two crimes. They have to prove the first crime and intent to commit another crime. They don't actually have to prove the facts of the second crime.
> Intent of course is always hard to prove in court.
Intent is hard to prove, but it's also something that gets proved in court cases frequently. For example, murder is (in almost all states) an intent crime. Prosecutors are still able to charge and convict on murder. So, while an intent element makes a case harder to make, it doesn't by default make it impossible.
For a crime similar to the being speculated about, consider Breaking and Entering. In many states a B&E is only a crime if it's done with the intent to commit another crime (in Washington state, for example, this is "Residential burglary" RCW 9A.52.025†). But if someone is caught breaking into a property at night with a ski mask and a burlap sack, prosecutors won't find it a challenge to demonstrate the requisite intent.
> Overall this seems like a weak case to me.
I think it's really too early to say at this point. I'd at least wait until the indictment is unsealed and released publicly so we can know the actual charges. Once we know the charges, and a summary of the available evidence, we'd be in a much better position to make a claim about the quality of the case.
* There's really only a single sentence of _news_ to report, but there's probably a decent amount of explaining the process that can reasonably happen, since most people aren't familiar with the details of the process.
† https://app.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=9a.52&full=true#9A.52.025 https://app.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=9a.52&full=true...
- brewdad 4y agoSeriously. At this point we don't know whether Trump is being indicted on a minor campaign violation or for running a child sex ring and hiding bodies under the 17th green of Trump National. Logic and the rumor mill suggest it's far closer to the former but until the indictment is unsealed we are all going to have to wait and see. The 24 hour news cycle can't handle that vacuum but that's their problem.
- padjo 4y agoDoesn’t stop people like Pence and Lindsey Graham from cynically playing to the crowd by describing as outrageous charges that haven’t been made public yet
- mise_en_place 4y agoHow would you like it if you were dragged from your house in the middle of the night for unspecified crimes. That’s what “sealed” charges are. With the way things are going, I’m sure you will find out soon. This is the type of stuff that happens in authoritarian regimes, not liberal democracies. All I can say is, I hope you’re armed when they’re at your doorstep next.
- r2_pilot 4y agoOh no, I may possibly be arrested on nebulous charges regarding campaign finance laws(after pilfering classified documents, naturally, and calling election officials saying that I need a certain number of votes). And your advice is to have weapons when legitimate authorities come knocking. Somehow I think you may be overly paranoid about the possibility of this happening. It's certainly not something I lose sleep over at night. And I definitely won't be using force against them; we have a functional court system to provide an extra check against excesses like you presume to exist. For the record, I'm aware that the system isn't perfect by any means, but it's also nowhere as bad as you surmise.
- bayesian_horse 4y agoHe has a chance to voluntarily surrender, get processed and go home immediately. Much unlike many suspects/defendants, actually. He will get his charges read. Even if this results in a prison sentence, that prison sentence wouldn't be served in prison, more likely he'll get some home detention, because of the practicalities of secret service protection and what not. Maybe they restrict his TV access and tee times. So yes, Trump gets treated extremely unfairly in the justice system.