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I was such a mathcel growing up I took high school algebra in sixth grade. So I have every right to be assmad about things like this. And past me maybe would ha

I was such a mathcel growing up I took high school algebra in sixth grade. So I have every right to be assmad about things like this. And past me maybe would have been. But I'm not, and the reasons why are complex. First of all, algebra is hard. And not every kid can learn it in the eighth grade. Furthermore, not every teacher qualified to teach eighth grade stuff is qualified to teach algebra. What the studies have shown is that teaching algebra to everyone in grade 8 leads to worse math outcomes. And if you agree to teach some of the kids algebra in eighth grade, you're back in the sticky wicket of tracking and "gifted kids". Show me a gifted classroom and I'll show you a classroom full of mainly rich whites and Asians -- who are depriving the poorer and more socially disadvantaged students of valuable resources. The whole point of public education is democratic access -- to all -- of sufficient educational resources and service for basic functioning as an adult citizen, NOT educating every child to the maximum of their potential. It's kind of like how capitalism is really good if and only if you want to get as rich as possible and have the means to do so, and under social democracy you will be less rich, but the tradeoff is there are far fewer economic losers. In light of this, leaving algebra until ninth grade was the best choice for the San Francisco school system for equitable availability of education to all, given the resources and framework they have to work with.

toast0 4y ago
> What the studies have shown is that teaching algebra to everyone in grade 8 leads to worse math outcomes. > And if you agree to teach some of the kids algebra in eighth grade, you're back in the sticky wicket of tracking and "gifted kids". Show me a gifted classroom and I'll show you a classroom full of mainly rich whites and Asians -- who are depriving the poorer and more socially disadvantaged students of valuable resources. If you're worried about resources, put the best teachers in with the "typical" kids, and give them smaller classes than the "gifted" kids. I took 8th grade algebra in 7th grade at my public school, and my kid is going to get that next year too; if we had to wait for 9th grade, it would be an amazing waste of resources, because we'd be so bored and tempted to cause trouble. I don't know that my parents would have been able to put me in private school to get the math I needed (they were able to convince the school system to let me into to algebra a year early), but I have the means to do it for my kid, but this school system is setup to meet kids where they are. I suspect this change is just another thing driving parents with means out of SFUSD, which only further reduces the resources they have.
fhghshvn 4y ago
Even California does not think the point of public education to be basic functioning as an adult citizen. The vision statement is “All California students of the 21st century will attain the highest level of academic knowledge, applied learning and performance skills to ensure fulfilling personal lives and careers and contribute to civic and economic progress in our diverse and changing democratic society.” Irrespective of what one thinks the purpose of public education to be, the effect of this equity mindset is to hurt poorer but capable kids thus having the opposite effect of less equity. Richer parents are already bypassing these restrictions by opting for private school, moving out of the district to other public schools, or getting additional instruction outside regular schooling. What the commenter is actually arguing for is holding back poor, mostly Asian kids so that they aren’t ahead of poor black and brown kids. All the while rich kids are entrenched ahead of both. What I think would work better is food safety, tutoring starting at early grade levels, and safe and quiet places to study.
- bitwize 4y ago
  > Even California does not think the point of public education to be basic functioning as an adult citizen. The vision statement is “All California students of the 21st century will attain the highest level of academic knowledge, applied learning and performance skills to ensure fulfilling personal lives and careers and contribute to civic and economic progress in our diverse and changing democratic society.” Ohhh, if wishes were horses, my friend. Have you ever worked at a place where the mission statement contained things like "a commitment to excellence" and yet most everybody around you (quite possibly including yourself) was decidedly mediocre, employing practices (like doctrinaire Scrum) that precluded excellence and were intended to manage mediocre workers? California's education system, like nearly all USA education systems, is based on the Prussian model, which was devised by Industrial Revolution magnates as a way to mass-train children into future workers for their factories. Any pretense to excellence, or education to the highest level, is aspirational at best, a fig leaf at worst.
  - 2718i314 4y ago
    [flagged]

toast0 4y ago

> What the studies have shown is that teaching algebra to everyone in grade 8 leads to worse math outcomes. > And if you agree to teach some of the kids algebra in eighth grade, you're back in the sticky wicket of tracking and "gifted kids". Show me a gifted classroom and I'll show you a classroom full of mainly rich whites and Asians -- who are depriving the poorer and more socially disadvantaged students of valuable resources. If you're worried about resources, put the best teachers in with the "typical" kids, and give them smaller classes than the "gifted" kids. I took 8th grade algebra in 7th grade at my public school, and my kid is going to get that next year too; if we had to wait for 9th grade, it would be an amazing waste of resources, because we'd be so bored and tempted to cause trouble. I don't know that my parents would have been able to put me in private school to get the math I needed (they were able to convince the school system to let me into to algebra a year early), but I have the means to do it for my kid, but this school system is setup to meet kids where they are. I suspect this change is just another thing driving parents with means out of SFUSD, which only further reduces the resources they have.

fhghshvn 4y ago

Even California does not think the point of public education to be basic functioning as an adult citizen. The vision statement is “All California students of the 21st century will attain the highest level of academic knowledge, applied learning and performance skills to ensure fulfilling personal lives and careers and contribute to civic and economic progress in our diverse and changing democratic society.” Irrespective of what one thinks the purpose of public education to be, the effect of this equity mindset is to hurt poorer but capable kids thus having the opposite effect of less equity. Richer parents are already bypassing these restrictions by opting for private school, moving out of the district to other public schools, or getting additional instruction outside regular schooling. What the commenter is actually arguing for is holding back poor, mostly Asian kids so that they aren’t ahead of poor black and brown kids. All the while rich kids are entrenched ahead of both. What I think would work better is food safety, tutoring starting at early grade levels, and safe and quiet places to study.

bitwize 4y ago
> Even California does not think the point of public education to be basic functioning as an adult citizen. The vision statement is “All California students of the 21st century will attain the highest level of academic knowledge, applied learning and performance skills to ensure fulfilling personal lives and careers and contribute to civic and economic progress in our diverse and changing democratic society.” Ohhh, if wishes were horses, my friend. Have you ever worked at a place where the mission statement contained things like "a commitment to excellence" and yet most everybody around you (quite possibly including yourself) was decidedly mediocre, employing practices (like doctrinaire Scrum) that precluded excellence and were intended to manage mediocre workers? California's education system, like nearly all USA education systems, is based on the Prussian model, which was devised by Industrial Revolution magnates as a way to mass-train children into future workers for their factories. Any pretense to excellence, or education to the highest level, is aspirational at best, a fig leaf at worst.
- 2718i314 4y ago
  [flagged]