4 ms·

Well it wasn't received well by Adobe, who had by then bought Macromedia, nor by people who had tied their wagon to Flash. But Flash was pretty horrible even o

by gumby 4y ago

Well it wasn't received well by Adobe, who had by then bought Macromedia, nor by people who had tied their wagon to Flash. But Flash was pretty horrible even on most laptops and even many desktops of the day, and was a security nightmare. The complainers were loud, but I think the majority of people who cared (99% of humanity didn't even notice, of course) were muttering "amen brother!"

exsf0859 4y ago
Besides animation and games, Flash was also used for streaming video and video conferencing. iPhone customers were so desirable that, over time, the video streaming sites had to support Apple's video streaming format. They would have also supported Apple's video conferencing app, but I think Apple was unable to open-source the protocols for the video conferencing format, due to patent issues.
- duskwuff 4y ago
  > had to support Apple's video streaming format It's a little weird to call an open standard (like H264) "Apple's format".
  - Evidlo 4y ago
    H264 isn't open though, depending on your definition of open
    - duskwuff 4y ago
      Fine, pretend I said "industry standard" then. Either way it wasn't something Apple made.
  - lultimouomo 4y ago
    H264 is not a streaming format. HLS is, and it is pretty much "Apple's format". It's pretty backwards, and everyone was forced to support it because it was the one streaming format you could use in iStuff.
    - geocar 4y ago
      > It's pretty backwards I think it's pretty clever. There are a lot of usability issues with firewalls and proxies that make implementing other streaming protocols very difficult, and the HLS design basically causes the implementer to adopt a pattern that is resilient to those problems. Networks got a lot better after Covid had everyone work from home so IT had to sort the hot-path out for videoconferencing. Nowadays I think WebRTC would be fine, but in 2009 I think HLS was pretty smart.
      - lultimouomo 4y ago
        I am comparing HLS with other HTTP-based streaming formats - DASH and SmoothStreaming. They definitely have their issues (DASH in particular is the epitome of the second system syndrome) but they fix the two most glaring issues with HLS: separate manifests and non-aligned segments. Source: I write an HTTP streaming client library for a living.
        geocar 4y ago
        How can HLS be a move backwards if it came out before DASH and SS? Why do you think users care about “separate manifests and non-aligned segments” more than the video playing and not stalling and having to refresh?
        lultimouomo 4y ago
        SS came out in 2008, HLS in 2009. Separate manifests and non aligned segments have a real impact on the ability of the client to switch qualities in responsabilità to bandwith change, and this to avoid stalling. BTW, when I say "HLS is pretty backwards" I mean designed unergonomically and without clear requirements in mind, not a step back from what existed before. I would guess this is because the original specification was something like "whatever Major League Baseball can easily stream from their existing setup" (see the various Pantos drafts that ultimately became RFC8216)
        4y ago

by gumby 4y ago

exsf0859 4y ago

Besides animation and games, Flash was also used for streaming video and video conferencing. iPhone customers were so desirable that, over time, the video streaming sites had to support Apple's video streaming format. They would have also supported Apple's video conferencing app, but I think Apple was unable to open-source the protocols for the video conferencing format, due to patent issues.

duskwuff 4y ago
> had to support Apple's video streaming format It's a little weird to call an open standard (like H264) "Apple's format".
- Evidlo 4y ago
  H264 isn't open though, depending on your definition of open
  - duskwuff 4y ago
    Fine, pretend I said "industry standard" then. Either way it wasn't something Apple made.
- lultimouomo 4y ago
  H264 is not a streaming format. HLS is, and it is pretty much "Apple's format". It's pretty backwards, and everyone was forced to support it because it was the one streaming format you could use in iStuff.
  - geocar 4y ago
    > It's pretty backwards I think it's pretty clever. There are a lot of usability issues with firewalls and proxies that make implementing other streaming protocols very difficult, and the HLS design basically causes the implementer to adopt a pattern that is resilient to those problems. Networks got a lot better after Covid had everyone work from home so IT had to sort the hot-path out for videoconferencing. Nowadays I think WebRTC would be fine, but in 2009 I think HLS was pretty smart.
    - lultimouomo 4y ago
      I am comparing HLS with other HTTP-based streaming formats - DASH and SmoothStreaming. They definitely have their issues (DASH in particular is the epitome of the second system syndrome) but they fix the two most glaring issues with HLS: separate manifests and non-aligned segments. Source: I write an HTTP streaming client library for a living.
      - geocar 4y ago
        How can HLS be a move backwards if it came out before DASH and SS? Why do you think users care about “separate manifests and non-aligned segments” more than the video playing and not stalling and having to refresh?
        lultimouomo 4y ago
        SS came out in 2008, HLS in 2009. Separate manifests and non aligned segments have a real impact on the ability of the client to switch qualities in responsabilità to bandwith change, and this to avoid stalling. BTW, when I say "HLS is pretty backwards" I mean designed unergonomically and without clear requirements in mind, not a step back from what existed before. I would guess this is because the original specification was something like "whatever Major League Baseball can easily stream from their existing setup" (see the various Pantos drafts that ultimately became RFC8216)
        4y ago