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While this is in theory true, and as much as the literature of AA attempts to separate itself from Christianity or any other religion, the reality is that the 1

While this is in theory true, and as much as the literature of AA attempts to separate itself from Christianity or any other religion, the reality is that the 12 steps of Alcoholics Anonymous were derived from the 4 steps of the Oxford Group- an Evangelical Christian organization. The word god is constantly thrown around in meetings and throughout the literature and, make no mistake, that is a Christian god they are talking about. Christian prayers are fairly common in meetings as well, especially the Lord’s Prayer- and 12-step meetings are typically held in churches.

toomanyrichies 4y ago
> the 12 steps of Alcoholics Anonymous were derived from the 4 steps of the Oxford Group This is true. It's also true that AA broke off from the Oxford Group ("kicked out", according to Lois W, the wife of founder Bill W) for being too agnostic. Apparently it was pretty dramatic- see "AA Started In Riots" by Roger C. for more. [1] > The word god is constantly thrown around in meetings and throughout the literature and, make no mistake, that is a Christian god they are talking about. The meetings I went to were quite secular. I'm vehemently agnostic, and I never once felt like the people there were proselytizing to me. If they had, I would have left real quickly and not gone back. Most of the meetings I went to were in SF, LA, NYC, Shanghai, etc.), making it easier to find secular meetings that were run by people like me. Someone living in small-town America might have a different experience from mine. Hopefully with the advent of Zoom meetings, this is now less of an issue, but I can’t say since I left AA before Zoom became a thing. Each meeting is meant to be independent from the others, and each has its own bent. You'll find meetings for Christians but also meetings for atheists, just like you'll find mens' meetings, womens' meetings, young peoples' meetings, etc. > 12-step meetings are typically held in churches. I've been to meetings in church basements and Sunday school rooms, but I've also been to meetings at American Legion halls, recreation fields, City Halls, even the basement of a donut shop. Consider the cost of running a meeting. Literally their only revenue source is donations from attendees. Giving a donation might be hard for someone who has just hit rock bottom, and it can be expensive to rent a room for use as an Alano Club. Churches might be more likely to cut AA groups a break on the rent. I don't want to be accused of promotion by either HN or AA, so I won't link to them, but secular AA meetings are plentiful and pretty easy to Google. Secularism is part of AA’s "12 Traditions", as well. [2] All that said, if AA still feels too religious for someone, there are other groups out there which don’t make use of the “higher power” concept in any capacity. Again, I maintain that AA doesn’t have a monopoly on sobriety. 1. https://aaagnostica.org/2013/12/08/aa-started-in-riots https://aaagnostica.org/2013/12/08/aa-started-in-riots 2. https://www.aa.org/the-twelve-traditions https://www.aa.org/the-twelve-traditions
- MavisBacon 4y ago
  My background is I used to run a national harm reduction org and I’ve also spent countless nights and mornings in AA and NA meetings in cities and towns throughout the country- places like Baltimore, Miami/Dade County, Tucson, Santa Ana, Denver/Boulder, Newport Beach and nearby suburbs of all these places That’s great you were able to access secular meetings in SF/LA/NYC, but the reality for most Americans is that those meetings you attended might as well not exist, they are elusive, infrequent, and make up a tiny percentage of the total meetings online or otherwise Having said all that. and while we are nitpicking- it’s probably worth mentioning that “secular” meetings still have 12 steps and still involve handing your will and life over to a higher power of some more palatable flavor (such as “the program”)- so definitionally we are still talking about faith-based treatment. This will never work out well for atheists and that’s the point me and others are making.

toomanyrichies 4y ago

> the 12 steps of Alcoholics Anonymous were derived from the 4 steps of the Oxford Group This is true. It's also true that AA broke off from the Oxford Group ("kicked out", according to Lois W, the wife of founder Bill W) for being too agnostic. Apparently it was pretty dramatic- see "AA Started In Riots" by Roger C. for more. [1] > The word god is constantly thrown around in meetings and throughout the literature and, make no mistake, that is a Christian god they are talking about. The meetings I went to were quite secular. I'm vehemently agnostic, and I never once felt like the people there were proselytizing to me. If they had, I would have left real quickly and not gone back. Most of the meetings I went to were in SF, LA, NYC, Shanghai, etc.), making it easier to find secular meetings that were run by people like me. Someone living in small-town America might have a different experience from mine. Hopefully with the advent of Zoom meetings, this is now less of an issue, but I can’t say since I left AA before Zoom became a thing. Each meeting is meant to be independent from the others, and each has its own bent. You'll find meetings for Christians but also meetings for atheists, just like you'll find mens' meetings, womens' meetings, young peoples' meetings, etc. > 12-step meetings are typically held in churches. I've been to meetings in church basements and Sunday school rooms, but I've also been to meetings at American Legion halls, recreation fields, City Halls, even the basement of a donut shop. Consider the cost of running a meeting. Literally their only revenue source is donations from attendees. Giving a donation might be hard for someone who has just hit rock bottom, and it can be expensive to rent a room for use as an Alano Club. Churches might be more likely to cut AA groups a break on the rent. I don't want to be accused of promotion by either HN or AA, so I won't link to them, but secular AA meetings are plentiful and pretty easy to Google. Secularism is part of AA’s "12 Traditions", as well. [2] All that said, if AA still feels too religious for someone, there are other groups out there which don’t make use of the “higher power” concept in any capacity. Again, I maintain that AA doesn’t have a monopoly on sobriety. 1. https://aaagnostica.org/2013/12/08/aa-started-in-riots https://aaagnostica.org/2013/12/08/aa-started-in-riots 2. https://www.aa.org/the-twelve-traditions https://www.aa.org/the-twelve-traditions

MavisBacon 4y ago
My background is I used to run a national harm reduction org and I’ve also spent countless nights and mornings in AA and NA meetings in cities and towns throughout the country- places like Baltimore, Miami/Dade County, Tucson, Santa Ana, Denver/Boulder, Newport Beach and nearby suburbs of all these places That’s great you were able to access secular meetings in SF/LA/NYC, but the reality for most Americans is that those meetings you attended might as well not exist, they are elusive, infrequent, and make up a tiny percentage of the total meetings online or otherwise Having said all that. and while we are nitpicking- it’s probably worth mentioning that “secular” meetings still have 12 steps and still involve handing your will and life over to a higher power of some more palatable flavor (such as “the program”)- so definitionally we are still talking about faith-based treatment. This will never work out well for atheists and that’s the point me and others are making.