4 ms·

I understand your point and understanding both sides of the country is very important, but so also is justice. I mean, what if he is guilty? If 48% of the popul

I understand your point and understanding both sides of the country is very important, but so also is justice. I mean, what if he is guilty? If 48% of the population is ticked off by a guilty conviction that theoretically could be correct, that shouldn't stop us from convicting a criminal. I'm not saying Trump is a criminal; I am not on the jury and do not have the facts. But I'm saying someone should be convicted if they're guilty even if it has political implications. Whether or not people are angry at a result, that is their choice to make.

zarzavat 4y ago
Let he who is without sin throw the first stone. Should Joe Biden be prosecuted for negligently storing classified documents in his home? Every person in the US is guilty of some baseline level of criminality, and the more “interesting” your life, the more crimes you are likely to have committed. If the US wants to have non-criminal presidents then it should reform its vast state and federal criminal codes so that such a person can actually exist. Until that happens, a norm against criminalizing ex-presidents (except for serious crimes) is a good norm to have. [I’m not sure it has to be said here, but my political beliefs are completely disjoint with Trump’s]
- laidoffamazon 4y ago
  Bad example to use there because Trump will very possibly be indicted for doing the same, but much worse, in terms of his own classified information!
- uptownfunk 4y ago
  Yes exactly, otherwise you end up with impotent policemen who are incapable of enforcing the law.
- another_story 4y ago
  Yes, if you commit a crime, petty or not, rich or poor, you should face a court. If you park in front of a fire hydrant, whether you're a mom picking up her kid or the president, you should get a ticket. If there is no attempt at equality in the face of the law, then what's the point?
  - zarzavat 4y ago
    The US already has one of the largest imprisoned populations in the world, per capita. If the problem is unfairness and inequality (which I completely agree are serious problems), the solution is not to imprison even more people, but just richer people for white collar crimes to “balance things out”. No, the solution is to imprison fewer people from disadvantaged classes. Imprisoning Trump does little to help all the people in prison for dubious reasons. The logical conclusion of a policy of investigating and punishing all violations of all the laws currently on the books, is that almost everybody in America should be criminalized. That is not what a well functioning criminal justice system looks like.
    - janalsncm 4y ago
      Putting Trump in prison for his crimes is not about helping anyone from any class. It’s about enforcing basic laws governing the conduct of powerful people. In Trump’s case he very likely engaged in some kind of fraud, which is illegal for rich and poor alike.
      - MrOwnPut 4y ago
        > he very likely engaged in some kind of fraud So you are assuming guilt before innocence? Based on what? The charges haven't even been unsealed.
        janalsncm 4y ago
        If it’s any comfort to you, I’m not in the jury pool.
        MrOwnPut 4y ago
        I was just asking you to clarify your morals and reasoning.
    - another_story 4y ago
      The solution is to get rid of certain laws or reduce punishment instead of ignoring them for the wealthy and powerful.
- drusepth 4y ago
  > Every person in the US is guilty of some baseline level of criminality, and the more “interesting” your life, the more crimes you are likely to have committed. What's the point of having these laws if they're not enforced? Yes, yes, and yes. Every little legal infraction should be prosecuted, no matter how small or who you are. If they don't matter or shouldn't matter, the law should be changed; keeping them on the books and selectively enforcing them when it's convenient isn't fair to anyone.
- watwut 4y ago
  I dont think that is reasonable or fair comparison at all. Bidens treatment of documents was much different then Trumps ... and notably his layers returned documents by themselves upon realizing the issue. > Until that happens, a norm against criminalizing ex-presidents (except for serious crimes) is a good norm to have. Funny enough, the framers back then claimed that law applies to presidents too ... and that this is what makes United States special and different then monarchy.
vl 4y ago
But all high-level politicians are criminals. And perhaps we would be better off if they are all in jail. The problem is that coming for ex-presidents in particular leads to them not leaving office and becoming dictators. And this is far worse outcome. Notice how Trump didn’t come for Obama, although he vocally promised to do so. Then errors of his ways were explained to him and after election he stopped talking about it completely. Now social and political contract is broken in regard to him, while he did demonstrate necessary restraint himself.

zarzavat 4y ago

Let he who is without sin throw the first stone. Should Joe Biden be prosecuted for negligently storing classified documents in his home? Every person in the US is guilty of some baseline level of criminality, and the more “interesting” your life, the more crimes you are likely to have committed. If the US wants to have non-criminal presidents then it should reform its vast state and federal criminal codes so that such a person can actually exist. Until that happens, a norm against criminalizing ex-presidents (except for serious crimes) is a good norm to have. [I’m not sure it has to be said here, but my political beliefs are completely disjoint with Trump’s]

laidoffamazon 4y ago
Bad example to use there because Trump will very possibly be indicted for doing the same, but much worse, in terms of his own classified information!
uptownfunk 4y ago
Yes exactly, otherwise you end up with impotent policemen who are incapable of enforcing the law.
another_story 4y ago
Yes, if you commit a crime, petty or not, rich or poor, you should face a court. If you park in front of a fire hydrant, whether you're a mom picking up her kid or the president, you should get a ticket. If there is no attempt at equality in the face of the law, then what's the point?
- zarzavat 4y ago
  The US already has one of the largest imprisoned populations in the world, per capita. If the problem is unfairness and inequality (which I completely agree are serious problems), the solution is not to imprison even more people, but just richer people for white collar crimes to “balance things out”. No, the solution is to imprison fewer people from disadvantaged classes. Imprisoning Trump does little to help all the people in prison for dubious reasons. The logical conclusion of a policy of investigating and punishing all violations of all the laws currently on the books, is that almost everybody in America should be criminalized. That is not what a well functioning criminal justice system looks like.
  - janalsncm 4y ago
    Putting Trump in prison for his crimes is not about helping anyone from any class. It’s about enforcing basic laws governing the conduct of powerful people. In Trump’s case he very likely engaged in some kind of fraud, which is illegal for rich and poor alike.
    - MrOwnPut 4y ago
      > he very likely engaged in some kind of fraud So you are assuming guilt before innocence? Based on what? The charges haven't even been unsealed.
      - janalsncm 4y ago
        If it’s any comfort to you, I’m not in the jury pool.
        MrOwnPut 4y ago
        I was just asking you to clarify your morals and reasoning.
  - another_story 4y ago
    The solution is to get rid of certain laws or reduce punishment instead of ignoring them for the wealthy and powerful.
drusepth 4y ago
> Every person in the US is guilty of some baseline level of criminality, and the more “interesting” your life, the more crimes you are likely to have committed. What's the point of having these laws if they're not enforced? Yes, yes, and yes. Every little legal infraction should be prosecuted, no matter how small or who you are. If they don't matter or shouldn't matter, the law should be changed; keeping them on the books and selectively enforcing them when it's convenient isn't fair to anyone.
watwut 4y ago
I dont think that is reasonable or fair comparison at all. Bidens treatment of documents was much different then Trumps ... and notably his layers returned documents by themselves upon realizing the issue. > Until that happens, a norm against criminalizing ex-presidents (except for serious crimes) is a good norm to have. Funny enough, the framers back then claimed that law applies to presidents too ... and that this is what makes United States special and different then monarchy.

vl 4y ago

But all high-level politicians are criminals. And perhaps we would be better off if they are all in jail. The problem is that coming for ex-presidents in particular leads to them not leaving office and becoming dictators. And this is far worse outcome. Notice how Trump didn’t come for Obama, although he vocally promised to do so. Then errors of his ways were explained to him and after election he stopped talking about it completely. Now social and political contract is broken in regard to him, while he did demonstrate necessary restraint himself.