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>Quick question, who is the most criminal president in US history? Your post is a lot of meta talk and very short on actual....crimes. The idea behind this ind

by graeme 4y ago

>Quick question, who is the most criminal president in US history? Your post is a lot of meta talk and very short on actual....crimes. The idea behind this indictment is that Trump broke the law as a citizen. Not that he did stuff in office that people dislike. Which law did Obama break which you think he evaded prosecution for on account of being president. Please be specific.

A4ET8a8uTh0 4y ago
Not parent, but I am relatively certain you can't just kill US citizen with a wave of a hand ( not legally that is[1]). Obama did just that. [1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_Abdulrahman_al-Awlaki https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_Abdulrahman_al-Awla...
- anonymouskimmer 4y ago
  The argument that this is legal was from Bush Jr's office: https://thenewamerican.com/cia-has-program-to-assassinate-us-citizens/ https://thenewamerican.com/cia-has-program-to-assassinate-us... Your Wikipedia link makes it seem like an honest mistake. Which would not be a crime, though could have civil penalties if government immunity wasn't involved.
  - A4ET8a8uTh0 4y ago
    Unless I am misreading it, the link you provided makes it sound even worse than, by comparison, benign Wiki article: << The Bush administration had made a point of claiming unlimited power under the << “the Obama administration has adopted the same stance.” I am aware of the theory about 'imperial presidency', but I think we can agree that US president does not actually have unlimited power. << our Wikipedia link makes it seem like an honest mistake. Yeah. Funny how the president did not address it himself, but instead we have mere 'leaks' to speculate on. << Which would not be a crime, though could have civil penalties if government immunity wasn't involved. No. Factually wrong. It would be a crime were government immunity not involved. If you kill a person in US by a sheer stroke of bad fortune, you may still end up being convicted for a crime ( involuntary manslaughter ). Naturally, this being government makes it fairly complicated, because the actual responsibility is spread across many decision centers, but, as the saying goes, 'the buck stops here' so one would think that if it was a.. mistake, it would be addressed as such and not quietly forgotten and dismissed.
misssocrates 4y ago
Be specific about the charges in this case? How confident are you that they couldn't find something on every single President?
- graeme 4y ago
  You could find something about almost anyone. See “two felonies a day” My question was something which he would normally be prosecuted for, but wasn’t on account of being president. > evaded prosecution for on account of being president
sashank_1509 4y ago
[flagged]
- dragonwriter 4y ago
  > A lesser known book that is far more scholarly and worth of your time is “Liberty’s nemesis: The unchecked expansion of your state” by John Yoo and Dean Reuter. I also do like the more polemical “ Faithless Execution: Building the Political Case for Obama s Impeachment” by Andrew MC Carthy If I had to name the scandals, there’s 1. IRS Scandal that’s so well I prefer politico-legal advocacy books where fewer than half of the authors are war criminals, but that could just be me. (I also prefer such books where none of the authors are Federalist Society members, but I’m a bit more flexible on that than the preceding preference…)
  - sashank_1509 4y ago
    What are you on about, who’s a war criminal, genuinely curious?
    - dragonwriter 4y ago
      > What are you on about, who’s a war criminal John Yoo, one of the principal architects of the Bush Administration’s campaign of torture as state policy in the War on Terror.
      - sashank_1509 4y ago
        in the real world, when you write war criminal, people think someone convicted of a war crime, it’s really not meant to be used a figure of speech. John Yoo is still a UC Berkeley Law Professor. You’re making war criminal as meaningless a term as a Nazi.
        esafak 4y ago
        Not at all. I think a person who provides legal "justification" for water boarding is guilty of a war crime. He is an enabler.

by graeme 4y ago

A4ET8a8uTh0 4y ago

Not parent, but I am relatively certain you can't just kill US citizen with a wave of a hand ( not legally that is[1]). Obama did just that. [1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_Abdulrahman_al-Awlaki https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_Abdulrahman_al-Awla...

anonymouskimmer 4y ago
The argument that this is legal was from Bush Jr's office: https://thenewamerican.com/cia-has-program-to-assassinate-us-citizens/ https://thenewamerican.com/cia-has-program-to-assassinate-us... Your Wikipedia link makes it seem like an honest mistake. Which would not be a crime, though could have civil penalties if government immunity wasn't involved.
- A4ET8a8uTh0 4y ago
  Unless I am misreading it, the link you provided makes it sound even worse than, by comparison, benign Wiki article: << The Bush administration had made a point of claiming unlimited power under the << “the Obama administration has adopted the same stance.” I am aware of the theory about 'imperial presidency', but I think we can agree that US president does not actually have unlimited power. << our Wikipedia link makes it seem like an honest mistake. Yeah. Funny how the president did not address it himself, but instead we have mere 'leaks' to speculate on. << Which would not be a crime, though could have civil penalties if government immunity wasn't involved. No. Factually wrong. It would be a crime were government immunity not involved. If you kill a person in US by a sheer stroke of bad fortune, you may still end up being convicted for a crime ( involuntary manslaughter ). Naturally, this being government makes it fairly complicated, because the actual responsibility is spread across many decision centers, but, as the saying goes, 'the buck stops here' so one would think that if it was a.. mistake, it would be addressed as such and not quietly forgotten and dismissed.

misssocrates 4y ago

Be specific about the charges in this case? How confident are you that they couldn't find something on every single President?

graeme 4y ago
You could find something about almost anyone. See “two felonies a day” My question was something which he would normally be prosecuted for, but wasn’t on account of being president. > evaded prosecution for on account of being president

sashank_1509 4y ago

[flagged]

dragonwriter 4y ago
> A lesser known book that is far more scholarly and worth of your time is “Liberty’s nemesis: The unchecked expansion of your state” by John Yoo and Dean Reuter. I also do like the more polemical “ Faithless Execution: Building the Political Case for Obama s Impeachment” by Andrew MC Carthy If I had to name the scandals, there’s 1. IRS Scandal that’s so well I prefer politico-legal advocacy books where fewer than half of the authors are war criminals, but that could just be me. (I also prefer such books where none of the authors are Federalist Society members, but I’m a bit more flexible on that than the preceding preference…)
- sashank_1509 4y ago
  What are you on about, who’s a war criminal, genuinely curious?
  - dragonwriter 4y ago
    > What are you on about, who’s a war criminal John Yoo, one of the principal architects of the Bush Administration’s campaign of torture as state policy in the War on Terror.
    - sashank_1509 4y ago
      in the real world, when you write war criminal, people think someone convicted of a war crime, it’s really not meant to be used a figure of speech. John Yoo is still a UC Berkeley Law Professor. You’re making war criminal as meaningless a term as a Nazi.
      - esafak 4y ago
        Not at all. I think a person who provides legal "justification" for water boarding is guilty of a war crime. He is an enabler.