4 ms·

That cannot happen without a significant change to the constitution which will never happen.

by dogma1138 4y ago

Spooky23 4y ago
Treaties have an effect similar to a constitutional amendment.
- dogma1138 4y ago
  No they do not, treaties when ratified become federal law, they are still bound by the constitution.
  - Spooky23 4y ago
    My apologies, I phrased that inelegantly. It’s not that black and white. Treaties have and do grant the Federal government additional powers. They cannot diminish powers or add something that is taken away.
    - dogma1138 4y ago
      They do not, self executing treaties become domestic laws, if these laws are not constitutional then the treaty is pretty much void. And non self executing treaties are meaningless they pretty much mean that the US government promised something but it is not compelled to do anything about it and there is no mechanism that would require it to comply. The US constitution is supreme it takes precedence over anything the legislative branch might legislate and any action the executive branch might take. Alien tort is also not accepted when interpreting the constitution so you literally cannot interpret the constitution from the point of view of international or foreign laws.
- tablespoon 4y ago
  > Treaties have an effect similar to a constitutional amendment. They obviously do not. If they did, you could basically abolish the Constitution with one with only the presidency, a bare majority of the Senate, and the cooperation of a foreign power. An actual Constitutional amendment must meet a much, much higher bar.
- pyuser583 4y ago
  This is not true - at least not any more. Congress does get extra power when a law is passed as a treaty. Issues that are state business under the 10th Amendment become federal business. But it’s nothing like a constitutional amendment.
- dragonwriter 4y ago
  No, Treaties have an effect similar to (but not quite identical to) federal statute law.
dragonwriter 4y ago
Yes it can. And I know this, because it already happened (the US became a signatory in 2000, but repudiated any intent to ratify in 2002.) Are there potential circumstances where the US Constitution might conflict with obligations under the Rome Statute? Maybe; that certainly fairly regularly happens in practice with the Vienna Convention on Consular Relations, but the US has signed and ratified that treaty.

That cannot happen without a significant change to the constitution which will never happen.

Spooky23 4y ago

Treaties have an effect similar to a constitutional amendment.

dogma1138 4y ago
No they do not, treaties when ratified become federal law, they are still bound by the constitution.
- Spooky23 4y ago
  My apologies, I phrased that inelegantly. It’s not that black and white. Treaties have and do grant the Federal government additional powers. They cannot diminish powers or add something that is taken away.
  - dogma1138 4y ago
    They do not, self executing treaties become domestic laws, if these laws are not constitutional then the treaty is pretty much void. And non self executing treaties are meaningless they pretty much mean that the US government promised something but it is not compelled to do anything about it and there is no mechanism that would require it to comply. The US constitution is supreme it takes precedence over anything the legislative branch might legislate and any action the executive branch might take. Alien tort is also not accepted when interpreting the constitution so you literally cannot interpret the constitution from the point of view of international or foreign laws.
tablespoon 4y ago
> Treaties have an effect similar to a constitutional amendment. They obviously do not. If they did, you could basically abolish the Constitution with one with only the presidency, a bare majority of the Senate, and the cooperation of a foreign power. An actual Constitutional amendment must meet a much, much higher bar.
pyuser583 4y ago
This is not true - at least not any more. Congress does get extra power when a law is passed as a treaty. Issues that are state business under the 10th Amendment become federal business. But it’s nothing like a constitutional amendment.
dragonwriter 4y ago
No, Treaties have an effect similar to (but not quite identical to) federal statute law.

dragonwriter 4y ago

Yes it can. And I know this, because it already happened (the US became a signatory in 2000, but repudiated any intent to ratify in 2002.) Are there potential circumstances where the US Constitution might conflict with obligations under the Rome Statute? Maybe; that certainly fairly regularly happens in practice with the Vienna Convention on Consular Relations, but the US has signed and ratified that treaty.