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This seems like an obvious call to civil war when we jail an ex-president who is the frontrunner for the next election. Jailing a person who could as likely as

This seems like an obvious call to civil war when we jail an ex-president who is the frontrunner for the next election. Jailing a person who could as likely as not be be supported by a majority of voters for the presidency would probably be the single most anti-democratic act to ever occur in the US. I never thought we could outdo secret trials, but here we are, doing a speedrun into total collapse. I'm just astounded that the centrist blob thinks that they can get away with this utilizing a largely right-wing military, an extremely right-wing police force, and a extremely well-armed and numerous right-wing element of the population. It's madness. Maybe (most likely) the lords of surveillance and and propaganda have a better idea of the country's pulse and and potential reaction than I do. Maybe the incompetents in the Biden Admin aren't running the show, and the intelligence agencies are fully and competently in control. If some African, Central Asian or South American country arrested the presidential frontrunner for paying a prostitute not to mention that he patronized her, everyone would recognize it as a country about to fall into violent anarchy. It's sad that in the clouds our suburban upper-middle class have their heads in, there apparently aren't any mirrors. If you believe in democracy, you hate this. If you believe in the version of the "rule of law" being bandied around that insists that law occupies some abstract space above the will of the deplorable population, a place ruled by angels that resemble the Warren Court and were educated at Harvard, Yale, or small private liberal arts colleges in the northeast - I think you may be absolutely blindsided in the coming months. edit: somehow, corporations got the unlimited ability to bribe politicians and political parties, but campaign finance laws can be warped to cover this shit.

rabite 4y ago
[flagged]
archagon 4y ago
The guy is a fucking criminal and this is long overdue. Your rant is unhinged.
- RoyGBivCap 4y ago
  0 convictions and he's a criminal?
  - pessimizer 4y ago
    That's the value of the rule of law for you.
  - r2_pilot 4y ago
    I'll take twice impeached and likely only not convicted of the second impeachment by way of McConnell running the clock out then claiming that as a technicality as to why they couldn't proceed.
snozolli 4y ago
This seems like an obvious call to civil war when we jail an ex-president who is the frontrunner for the next election Yeah, we should just let politicians get away with criminal activity because of some vague concern that civil war is going to break out. the centrist blob thinks that they can get away with this utilizing a largely right-wing military, an extremely right-wing police force, and a extremely well-armed and numerous right-wing element of the population. It's madness. It's astonishing to me that your view is that we shouldn't pursue justice out of fear that the right-er half of the country will react violently. You're literally just saying that we should give in to terrorists before they've even shown their hand. Absolute insanity.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
adgjlsfhk1 4y ago
The problem isn't the payment. It's the payment with campaign contributions.
jmull 4y ago
> If you believe in democracy, you hate this. If you run for president the law shouldn’t apply to you? Because if it were, there would be armed rebellion? You aren’t describing a democracy. (Maybe this is a political prosecution, but if so, we don’t know it yet.)
- anonymouskimmer 4y ago
  Even if a prosecution is political, that doesn't mean it's wrong. Only trumped up charges (pun not intended), biased application of the law, extenuating circumstances, or a bad law make a prosecution wrong,
  - sashank_1509 4y ago
    Law means anything if its applied equally to all sides. Biased applications of law, does not mean anything. Nuremberg Trials were political: We humiliated and destroyed the Nazi's for loosing and killing 6 million jews. Nothing wrong with it but nothing lawful about it either. If Nuremberg Trials were lawful, then we should have put US generals on trial for indiscriminately burning Tokyo, Osaka, Nagasaki killing millions (including small children). I don't see how this is any different from the holocaust except that its close to 700k dead vs 6 million in holocaust. If you think this numerical difference gives complete immunity to US soldiers for targeting civilians, I'm really interested in your moral philosophy. We should also have put most of Russian Army on trial for massacring most of the German Army and a large chunk of their population (Close to 10 million). Arguably the charges would be much lower since most law allow killing of soldiers, however without soldiers it was still close to a million civilians killed. Thinking that Nuremberg trials wasn't just a political show that was arguable necessary to maintain peace, but was instead pursuing some ephemeral Universal Justice is being deluded
    - anonymouskimmer 4y ago
      I deleted the Nuremberg comment before you replied. What's allowed in self-defense, or defense of another, isn't allowed in offense, in most countries of the world (e.g. "Stand your ground" laws). This is partly why Germany was justifying its early invasions as protecting German residents of those countries. And is definitely why Russia is so justifying its invasion and annexation of Ukraine and Moldovan territory.
00kevn 4y ago
I believe in Democracy and don't hate this. No one is above the law in a Democracy.
nitwit005 4y ago
> I'm just astounded that the centrist blob thinks that they can get away with this utilizing a largely right-wing military Trump pissed off all the higher ups at the military. And what would they do anyways? Start overturning jury results they don't like? That's effectively military rule, and they know that'd just end in disaster.
- pessimizer 4y ago
  > Trump pissed off all the higher ups at the military. Absolutely true, but the vast bulk of the military lean Trumpy, and the generals will sort themselves out based on their self interests. > And what would they do anyways? Start overturning jury results they don't like? That's effectively military rule, and they know that'd just end in disaster. It's weird how you can talk about a military coup as if it's an impossibility that has never ever happened. What's never happened is the US indicting a president, and in this case it's arresting the frontrunner in the next election on an extremely shaky premise that most people I've encountered have trouble explaining clearly.
  - nitwit005 4y ago
    The thing about coups is they require groundwork. Trump hasn't done any of it. Support of military leadership is pretty key, for obvious reasons. They can attempt a coup regardless. It'll just end up being an embarrassing disaster, which is pretty much what happened on Jan 6th.
- norwalkbear 4y ago
  [flagged]
paulryanrogers 4y ago
If the US is a nation of laws and not men, then shouldn't candidates and sitting presidents be subject to the same laws? Bill Clinton was impeached while in office for perjury over some embarrassing lies about his personal life. (Albeit as it may have related to a possible pattern of bad behavior.)
anonymouskimmer 4y ago
In the USA you can still run for president while in prison. And if you're elected President they're going to, at minimum, move you to house arrest at the White House. Regardless, though, he'd probably remain free until the election. Either because the trial is ongoing, or because of appeals. Elizabeth Holmes was found guilty in January 2022. Sentenced to prison in 10 months later in November 2022. And is still not yet in prison (because of her pregnancy). > a largely right-wing military https://www.statista.com/chart/22761/us-military-voting-intention-in-the-november-election/ https://www.statista.com/chart/22761/us-military-voting-inte... > A new poll published by The Military Times contains bad news for President Trump with his levels of support within the U.S. military waning. Between October 2016 and August 2020, the share of active-service members finding the president favorable has fallen from 46.1 percent to 37.8 percent. With the November election swiftly approaching, 37.4 percent of active-duty troops say they would vote for Donald Trump while 41.3 percent would opt for Joe Biden.
- pasquinelli 4y ago
  > And if you're elected President they're going to, at minimum, move you to house arrest at the White House. why wouldn't you just pardon yourself?
  - anonymouskimmer 4y ago
    State sovereignty. The federal president can't pardon state charges. It's also probably not possible to pardon oneself. For federal charges the VP would have to do so (while sitting as acting president).
pasquinelli 4y ago
eh, i'm guessing nothing much will come of it and no one will much care. everytime people are freaking out online about something, that's how it goes. give it a week. but it opens the door to some funny possibilities. my guess is--if it comes to it--biden will pardon trump, which would be very funny. another interesting scenario is if trump goes to jail, he can still run for president, and honestly, i think that would give him a better chance of winning. and when he wins and pardons himself his fans will be so happy with the fuck all he does in another four years, and his antifans will have a stroke everyday about the nothing that's happening. then the other team will win and the fans and antifans will trade places. meanwhile, in all the ways that matter it'll be as if nothing happened, a straight line from nixon to now. if you think this is the death of democracy you haven't been in the real world, hate to break it to you.
- norwalkbear 4y ago
  [flagged]
  - ceejayoz 4y ago
    Which "top Democrats" have expressed this opinion? You're all over this thread repeatedly making this claim (seven times so far), and it's got https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yoy4_h7Pb3M https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yoy4_h7Pb3M vibes.
norwalkbear 4y ago
[flagged]

rabite 4y ago

[flagged]

archagon 4y ago

The guy is a fucking criminal and this is long overdue. Your rant is unhinged.

RoyGBivCap 4y ago
0 convictions and he's a criminal?
- pessimizer 4y ago
  That's the value of the rule of law for you.
- r2_pilot 4y ago
  I'll take twice impeached and likely only not convicted of the second impeachment by way of McConnell running the clock out then claiming that as a technicality as to why they couldn't proceed.

snozolli 4y ago

This seems like an obvious call to civil war when we jail an ex-president who is the frontrunner for the next election Yeah, we should just let politicians get away with criminal activity because of some vague concern that civil war is going to break out. the centrist blob thinks that they can get away with this utilizing a largely right-wing military, an extremely right-wing police force, and a extremely well-armed and numerous right-wing element of the population. It's madness. It's astonishing to me that your view is that we shouldn't pursue justice out of fear that the right-er half of the country will react violently. You're literally just saying that we should give in to terrorists before they've even shown their hand. Absolute insanity.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

adgjlsfhk1 4y ago

The problem isn't the payment. It's the payment with campaign contributions.

jmull 4y ago

> If you believe in democracy, you hate this. If you run for president the law shouldn’t apply to you? Because if it were, there would be armed rebellion? You aren’t describing a democracy. (Maybe this is a political prosecution, but if so, we don’t know it yet.)

anonymouskimmer 4y ago
Even if a prosecution is political, that doesn't mean it's wrong. Only trumped up charges (pun not intended), biased application of the law, extenuating circumstances, or a bad law make a prosecution wrong,
- sashank_1509 4y ago
  Law means anything if its applied equally to all sides. Biased applications of law, does not mean anything. Nuremberg Trials were political: We humiliated and destroyed the Nazi's for loosing and killing 6 million jews. Nothing wrong with it but nothing lawful about it either. If Nuremberg Trials were lawful, then we should have put US generals on trial for indiscriminately burning Tokyo, Osaka, Nagasaki killing millions (including small children). I don't see how this is any different from the holocaust except that its close to 700k dead vs 6 million in holocaust. If you think this numerical difference gives complete immunity to US soldiers for targeting civilians, I'm really interested in your moral philosophy. We should also have put most of Russian Army on trial for massacring most of the German Army and a large chunk of their population (Close to 10 million). Arguably the charges would be much lower since most law allow killing of soldiers, however without soldiers it was still close to a million civilians killed. Thinking that Nuremberg trials wasn't just a political show that was arguable necessary to maintain peace, but was instead pursuing some ephemeral Universal Justice is being deluded
  - anonymouskimmer 4y ago
    I deleted the Nuremberg comment before you replied. What's allowed in self-defense, or defense of another, isn't allowed in offense, in most countries of the world (e.g. "Stand your ground" laws). This is partly why Germany was justifying its early invasions as protecting German residents of those countries. And is definitely why Russia is so justifying its invasion and annexation of Ukraine and Moldovan territory.

00kevn 4y ago

I believe in Democracy and don't hate this. No one is above the law in a Democracy.

nitwit005 4y ago

> I'm just astounded that the centrist blob thinks that they can get away with this utilizing a largely right-wing military Trump pissed off all the higher ups at the military. And what would they do anyways? Start overturning jury results they don't like? That's effectively military rule, and they know that'd just end in disaster.

pessimizer 4y ago
> Trump pissed off all the higher ups at the military. Absolutely true, but the vast bulk of the military lean Trumpy, and the generals will sort themselves out based on their self interests. > And what would they do anyways? Start overturning jury results they don't like? That's effectively military rule, and they know that'd just end in disaster. It's weird how you can talk about a military coup as if it's an impossibility that has never ever happened. What's never happened is the US indicting a president, and in this case it's arresting the frontrunner in the next election on an extremely shaky premise that most people I've encountered have trouble explaining clearly.
- nitwit005 4y ago
  The thing about coups is they require groundwork. Trump hasn't done any of it. Support of military leadership is pretty key, for obvious reasons. They can attempt a coup regardless. It'll just end up being an embarrassing disaster, which is pretty much what happened on Jan 6th.
norwalkbear 4y ago
[flagged]

paulryanrogers 4y ago

If the US is a nation of laws and not men, then shouldn't candidates and sitting presidents be subject to the same laws? Bill Clinton was impeached while in office for perjury over some embarrassing lies about his personal life. (Albeit as it may have related to a possible pattern of bad behavior.)

anonymouskimmer 4y ago

In the USA you can still run for president while in prison. And if you're elected President they're going to, at minimum, move you to house arrest at the White House. Regardless, though, he'd probably remain free until the election. Either because the trial is ongoing, or because of appeals. Elizabeth Holmes was found guilty in January 2022. Sentenced to prison in 10 months later in November 2022. And is still not yet in prison (because of her pregnancy). > a largely right-wing military https://www.statista.com/chart/22761/us-military-voting-intention-in-the-november-election/ https://www.statista.com/chart/22761/us-military-voting-inte... > A new poll published by The Military Times contains bad news for President Trump with his levels of support within the U.S. military waning. Between October 2016 and August 2020, the share of active-service members finding the president favorable has fallen from 46.1 percent to 37.8 percent. With the November election swiftly approaching, 37.4 percent of active-duty troops say they would vote for Donald Trump while 41.3 percent would opt for Joe Biden.

pasquinelli 4y ago
> And if you're elected President they're going to, at minimum, move you to house arrest at the White House. why wouldn't you just pardon yourself?
- anonymouskimmer 4y ago
  State sovereignty. The federal president can't pardon state charges. It's also probably not possible to pardon oneself. For federal charges the VP would have to do so (while sitting as acting president).

pasquinelli 4y ago

eh, i'm guessing nothing much will come of it and no one will much care. everytime people are freaking out online about something, that's how it goes. give it a week. but it opens the door to some funny possibilities. my guess is--if it comes to it--biden will pardon trump, which would be very funny. another interesting scenario is if trump goes to jail, he can still run for president, and honestly, i think that would give him a better chance of winning. and when he wins and pardons himself his fans will be so happy with the fuck all he does in another four years, and his antifans will have a stroke everyday about the nothing that's happening. then the other team will win and the fans and antifans will trade places. meanwhile, in all the ways that matter it'll be as if nothing happened, a straight line from nixon to now. if you think this is the death of democracy you haven't been in the real world, hate to break it to you.

norwalkbear 4y ago
[flagged]
- ceejayoz 4y ago
  Which "top Democrats" have expressed this opinion? You're all over this thread repeatedly making this claim (seven times so far), and it's got https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yoy4_h7Pb3M https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yoy4_h7Pb3M vibes.

norwalkbear 4y ago

[flagged]