5 ms·

That magical thinking only works, though, if the object in question is special in some way. If it can be had for a dime a dozen at any time from any local corn

by teddyh 4y ago

That magical thinking only works, though, if the object in question is special in some way. If it can be had for a dime a dozen at any time from any local corner store, the object loses its magic.

bb88 4y ago
That's the thing, tubes used to be a dime a dozen. Just not anymore once transistors took over. I'm not saying it's not nostalgia, it could very well be....
- teddyh 4y ago
  Exactly my point. If tubes still were, and always had been, a dime a dozen, then nobody would care about building (or buying) fancy expensive equipment with tubes! Tubes would be seen as obsolete junk.
  - progrus 4y ago
    Except for guitar amps - I think you underestimate how tribal and idiosyncratic the tone hounds can get.
    - ilyt 4y ago
      Well, my amp is not in any of emulators so I have my excuse. But I kinda like single purpose of dedicated amplifier
      - progrus 4y ago
        I like analog hardware mostly because of the knobs, but there is also a nice spiritual connection to the sound energy. Note that a solid-state amp can still be analog, transistors vs. tubes is distinct from analog vs. digital. Analog solid-state amps can make fantastic sounds, but transistors are much better at staying linear until they clip, so the transitions to nonlinearity/distortion are abrupt and the crunchy tone is less “warm”.
    - bb88 4y ago
      I'm don't underestimate it at all. There's a certain warm tone that tubes produce. It's gentle in a sense. A DAC can be harsh. A naive view point is that the analog output of an analog device is going to be smooth. The digital output will add noise on the stair step transitions. I'm not saying this is the case in reality. I'm just saying, it's useful to think about when dealing with analog vs digital signals.
      - progrus 4y ago
        “Warm tone” is just another name for gentler distortion, where non-linearities happen before the hard clip limit. It can be modeled pretty well digitally as long as the digital signal itself doesn’t clip, but I agree the real thing is best.
      - kazinator 4y ago
        > There's a certain warm tone that tubes produce. LOL, what? Tubes produce the distortion you hear in most branches of heavy metal, and iconic sounds throughout the whole spectrum of guitar rock. In its raw form, it sounds awful; it has to be carefully shaped by filters, to remove high frequency "fizz" as well as annoying midrange frequencies to which the ear is sensitive. Even then, that filtered tone isn't something you could listen to via hi-fi equipment or record directly; it is amplified into certain kinds of cabinets with certain kinds of speakers. After all that, some people still hate it. :)
        bb88 4y ago
        You've clearly never listened to Fleetwood Mac on a tube stereo. It's not harsh. It's not perfect, but it is warm.
        progrus 4y ago
        I love my tube stereo. It would take an expensive solid-state amp to get close to its character, and it glows like a little fireplace :) Side note - I have a hunch that the term “warm” was coined unconsciously. It’s not the actual sound; it’s the sound characteristic of warm glowing tubes, the sound of electricity fizzing through hot metal.
munificent 4y ago
Rarity is one aspect that can summon that talismanic belief, but not the only one. There are lots of guitarists who have an abiding love of Stratocasters despite them being the Wonder Bread of guitars. What they have instead is a connection to history and other shamanic players: many famous guitarists have played strats, so even though your strat isn't the one Stevie Ray Vaughan played, it is sort of the same species in the underlying animistic magical thinking. With tubes, I think would hold even if the tubes themselves became cheap as chips. Time is another one: simply using the same piece of gear for years can imbue it with the power of ritual. Many writers use the same kind of paper and pen, and sit at the same sea, and the repetition alone is enough to summon the write mental state.

by teddyh 4y ago

That magical thinking only works, though, if the object in question is special in some way. If it can be had for a dime a dozen at any time from any local corner store, the object loses its magic.

bb88 4y ago

That's the thing, tubes used to be a dime a dozen. Just not anymore once transistors took over. I'm not saying it's not nostalgia, it could very well be....

teddyh 4y ago
Exactly my point. If tubes still were, and always had been, a dime a dozen, then nobody would care about building (or buying) fancy expensive equipment with tubes! Tubes would be seen as obsolete junk.
- progrus 4y ago
  Except for guitar amps - I think you underestimate how tribal and idiosyncratic the tone hounds can get.
  - ilyt 4y ago
    Well, my amp is not in any of emulators so I have my excuse. But I kinda like single purpose of dedicated amplifier
    - progrus 4y ago
      I like analog hardware mostly because of the knobs, but there is also a nice spiritual connection to the sound energy. Note that a solid-state amp can still be analog, transistors vs. tubes is distinct from analog vs. digital. Analog solid-state amps can make fantastic sounds, but transistors are much better at staying linear until they clip, so the transitions to nonlinearity/distortion are abrupt and the crunchy tone is less “warm”.
  - bb88 4y ago
    I'm don't underestimate it at all. There's a certain warm tone that tubes produce. It's gentle in a sense. A DAC can be harsh. A naive view point is that the analog output of an analog device is going to be smooth. The digital output will add noise on the stair step transitions. I'm not saying this is the case in reality. I'm just saying, it's useful to think about when dealing with analog vs digital signals.
    - progrus 4y ago
      “Warm tone” is just another name for gentler distortion, where non-linearities happen before the hard clip limit. It can be modeled pretty well digitally as long as the digital signal itself doesn’t clip, but I agree the real thing is best.
    - kazinator 4y ago
      > There's a certain warm tone that tubes produce. LOL, what? Tubes produce the distortion you hear in most branches of heavy metal, and iconic sounds throughout the whole spectrum of guitar rock. In its raw form, it sounds awful; it has to be carefully shaped by filters, to remove high frequency "fizz" as well as annoying midrange frequencies to which the ear is sensitive. Even then, that filtered tone isn't something you could listen to via hi-fi equipment or record directly; it is amplified into certain kinds of cabinets with certain kinds of speakers. After all that, some people still hate it. :)
      - bb88 4y ago
        You've clearly never listened to Fleetwood Mac on a tube stereo. It's not harsh. It's not perfect, but it is warm.
        progrus 4y ago
        I love my tube stereo. It would take an expensive solid-state amp to get close to its character, and it glows like a little fireplace :) Side note - I have a hunch that the term “warm” was coined unconsciously. It’s not the actual sound; it’s the sound characteristic of warm glowing tubes, the sound of electricity fizzing through hot metal.

munificent 4y ago

Rarity is one aspect that can summon that talismanic belief, but not the only one. There are lots of guitarists who have an abiding love of Stratocasters despite them being the Wonder Bread of guitars. What they have instead is a connection to history and other shamanic players: many famous guitarists have played strats, so even though your strat isn't the one Stevie Ray Vaughan played, it is sort of the same species in the underlying animistic magical thinking. With tubes, I think would hold even if the tubes themselves became cheap as chips. Time is another one: simply using the same piece of gear for years can imbue it with the power of ritual. Many writers use the same kind of paper and pen, and sit at the same sea, and the repetition alone is enough to summon the write mental state.