5 ms·

This is incredibly wrong. They aren't both Chrome; they're both Chromium-based and use Blink and V8 under the hood. And Blink is just a fork of WebKit, which i

This is incredibly wrong. They aren't both Chrome; they're both Chromium-based and use Blink and V8 under the hood. And Blink is just a fork of WebKit, which is Safari, so by your logic it's all Safari (it's not). These companies don't care about the rendering engine under the hood, they care about literally one thing: the default search. The war isn't over how CSS is rendered; it's over how many opportunities they have for surfacing their other products (search, email, identity and payments). If anything, Chrome/Firefox are more aligned than Chrome/Edge, because every 3 years Google pulls up with a dump truck of money to stay the default search engine. Also, not for nothing, but there's not a single iota of malice inside Mozilla. Extreme mismanagement, yes, but it's genuinely guided by good people trying to do good for the world. (Source: I'm ex Mozilla)

bscphil 4y ago
OP is presumably talking about stuff like dictating the future of web development, not about who gets money as a result of users having a browser installed. It's a different definition of "sameness" than you're using, but not necessarily a wrong one. (Whether the companies themselves care about this seems immaterial.)
Dalewyn 4y ago
>This is incredibly wrong. They aren't both Chrome; they're both Chromium-based and use Blink and V8 under the hood. So they're both Chrome. You can't have a war with just one participant. >These companies don't care about the rendering engine under the hood, they care about literally one thing: the default search. They absolutely care about the rendering engine, because that's how you secure a monopoly and subsequently get to foist your default search engine and whatever other monetization schemes on more customers. Did you not learn anything from Internet Explorer and its victory over Netscape? Embrace, Extend, Extinguish. There are many sites that only function properly in Chrome today, and that is to Google's (and now also Microsoft's) commercial interests. You can't have a browser war with just one participant. >If anything, Chrome/Firefox are more aligned than Chrome/Edge, because every 3 years Google pulls up with a dump truck of money to stay the default search engine. As far as Google is concerned, it's cheaper to pay Firefox to stay irrelevant than to compete on the market. Mozilla's flush with cash thanks to Google, but that also means they have no incentives to develop or not mismanage their products. >Also, not for nothing, but there's not a single iota of malice inside Mozilla. Extreme mismanagement, yes, but it's genuinely guided by good people trying to do good for the world. The road to hell is paved with good intentions. History also shows Mozilla today are more concerned about checking the right political checkboxes than delivering a good product that users want. >(Source: I'm ex Mozilla) I'm not surprised that (ex-)Mozilla would play the "Am I out of touch? No, it's the people who are wrong." meme almost to the letter, but that is probably neither here nor there.
- drsnow 4y ago
  >History also shows Mozilla today are more concerned about checking the right political checkboxes than delivering a good product that users want. As a trans person, I am happy that my browser developers are on my side and not the side of the people who'd rather see me be harassed or bullied into suicide.
  - Dalewyn 4y ago
    As a reasonable person, I am not happy that a browser's developers are more concerned about tangential, arguably completely unrelated, issues to their product.
    - gkoberger 4y ago
      You're confusing "more concerned" with "also concerned". I guarantee you that they can care about both at the same time, and I would LOVE to see an example where they prioritize trans rights at the expense of web standards.
      - candiodari 4y ago
        Ok: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brendan_Eich https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brendan_Eich
        deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
        hitekker 4y ago
        The silence from Gregory Koberger is typical. The idea that Mozilla has zero malice, that it didn't compromise web standards in favor of social activism, meets the reality that they fired the creator of Javascript and ran his name through the mud. As usual, we tech workers prioritize group identity over personal integrity.
        4y ago

bscphil 4y ago

OP is presumably talking about stuff like dictating the future of web development, not about who gets money as a result of users having a browser installed. It's a different definition of "sameness" than you're using, but not necessarily a wrong one. (Whether the companies themselves care about this seems immaterial.)

Dalewyn 4y ago

>This is incredibly wrong. They aren't both Chrome; they're both Chromium-based and use Blink and V8 under the hood. So they're both Chrome. You can't have a war with just one participant. >These companies don't care about the rendering engine under the hood, they care about literally one thing: the default search. They absolutely care about the rendering engine, because that's how you secure a monopoly and subsequently get to foist your default search engine and whatever other monetization schemes on more customers. Did you not learn anything from Internet Explorer and its victory over Netscape? Embrace, Extend, Extinguish. There are many sites that only function properly in Chrome today, and that is to Google's (and now also Microsoft's) commercial interests. You can't have a browser war with just one participant. >If anything, Chrome/Firefox are more aligned than Chrome/Edge, because every 3 years Google pulls up with a dump truck of money to stay the default search engine. As far as Google is concerned, it's cheaper to pay Firefox to stay irrelevant than to compete on the market. Mozilla's flush with cash thanks to Google, but that also means they have no incentives to develop or not mismanage their products. >Also, not for nothing, but there's not a single iota of malice inside Mozilla. Extreme mismanagement, yes, but it's genuinely guided by good people trying to do good for the world. The road to hell is paved with good intentions. History also shows Mozilla today are more concerned about checking the right political checkboxes than delivering a good product that users want. >(Source: I'm ex Mozilla) I'm not surprised that (ex-)Mozilla would play the "Am I out of touch? No, it's the people who are wrong." meme almost to the letter, but that is probably neither here nor there.

drsnow 4y ago
>History also shows Mozilla today are more concerned about checking the right political checkboxes than delivering a good product that users want. As a trans person, I am happy that my browser developers are on my side and not the side of the people who'd rather see me be harassed or bullied into suicide.
- Dalewyn 4y ago
  As a reasonable person, I am not happy that a browser's developers are more concerned about tangential, arguably completely unrelated, issues to their product.
  - gkoberger 4y ago
    You're confusing "more concerned" with "also concerned". I guarantee you that they can care about both at the same time, and I would LOVE to see an example where they prioritize trans rights at the expense of web standards.
    - candiodari 4y ago
      Ok: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brendan_Eich https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brendan_Eich
      - deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
      - hitekker 4y ago
        The silence from Gregory Koberger is typical. The idea that Mozilla has zero malice, that it didn't compromise web standards in favor of social activism, meets the reality that they fired the creator of Javascript and ran his name through the mud. As usual, we tech workers prioritize group identity over personal integrity.
        4y ago