4 ms·

Why would any future president ever want to relinquish power, when a future of prosecution awaits him. Better serve as long as possible in that case, and use t

Why would any future president ever want to relinquish power, when a future of prosecution awaits him. Better serve as long as possible in that case, and use the power of government to keep himself in power. Kind of what used to happen before democracy.

flangola7 4y ago
> Why would any future president ever want to relinquish power, when a future of prosecution awaits him. Because if he doesn't relinquish it the other branches will remove him anyway, as was imminent with Nixon. Trump wasn't convicted by the Senate, but his butt was still kicked out of the White House on Inauguration Day. American democracy isn't fantastic but it's still a long way from the President having absolute control. "They will double down if we try to punish them." is a hollow argument that could be used to justify not punishing any crime. A pickpocket might try to run or fight back if he knows he will be punished, but that's not a reason to let him do it, it's a reason to have teams of fit people equipped with tazers and handcuffs that can subdue him anyway.
- stuckinhell 4y ago
  Richard Nixon won the 1972 U.S. presidential election by a large margin. He defeated the Democratic Party nominee, George McGovern, by winning 60.7% of the popular vote and 520 electoral votes out of 537. This was one of the largest landslides in U.S. presidential election history. It wasn't imminent at all. If Nixon wanted to end the republic as we know it, he nearly could have. He had a insane mandate by the people.
  - generj 4y ago
    He didn’t have an insane mandate of Congress, which decidedly was going to impeach him. It took some time and solid investigation but his party wholesale rejected him and made it clear he had no political future. Nixon was could either resign or be humiliatingly fired. We no longer have a Congress which values country over party. There’s a good chance Trump could have murdered someone on 5th Avenue and he still would not have been impeached.
  - flangola7 4y ago
    That's an F grade in any high school history class. Nixon's own party made it clear they were going to remove him if he didn't resign. You can't deny undisputed historical facts. It's also safely assumed that a full 60% of the public would not have voted for him if they knew he was going to betray his duty.
krapp 4y ago
>Why would any future president ever want to relinquish power, when a future of prosecution awaits him. Presidents aren't kings, they can't just "use the power of government" to keep themselves in power indefinitely, and they aren't above the law, in or out of office, despite what some of them might say. It doesn't matter if they want to relinquish power or not, their power ends when the Constitution says it does and if a president refuses to leave when the clock runs out, the Marines will put a gun to their head and show them the door. Which is as it should be.
- stuckinhell 4y ago
  I want to agree, but the Constitution is just a piece of paper, what matters is the will of people to accept or deny it.
singleshot_ 4y ago
“The law” would seem to be a reasonably succinct and correct answer to this question.
nobodyandproud 4y ago
> Why would any future president ever want to relinquish power, when a future of prosecution awaits him. Because the message here is that they will be criminally charged, if they don’t honor the election and the peaceful transfer of power. It’s scary that we have to set this precedent, but it’d be scarier if we don’t.
- mercyandgrace 4y ago
  > Because the message here is that they will be criminally charged, if they don’t honor the election and the peaceful transfer of power. With something completely unrelated? That's a concerning viewpoint.
  - mcphage 4y ago
    > With something completely unrelated? That's a concerning viewpoint. I guess it would be concerning if you commit so many crimes that nobody knew which one you'd actually be charged with first. Me, I just try to not do that.
    - BuyMyBitcoins 4y ago
      >”Me, I just try to not do that.” A well meaning sentiment but we all break the law on a daily basis. The amount of laws in the US Code is staggering and if a motivated DA wants to charge someone of a crime, they’ll find a way. Three Felonies a Day: How the Feds Target the Innocent by Harvey Silvergate is a perfect primer on this subject. From what I understand, this indictment is about accounting and how a payment was classified. Not that the payment itself was illegal, or that it was some bombshell. Some argue it was a legal expense, some argue it should have been a campaign expenditure. It could go either way.
      - mcphage 4y ago
        > A well meaning sentiment but we all break the law on a daily basis. > Some argue it was a legal expense, some argue it should have been a campaign expenditure. Whomst among us has never bought the silence of a porn star using political campaign funds?
mjmsmith 4y ago
Why would a future president think there are any limits whatsoever on his actions, when a future of prosecution will never await him? Kind of what happened on Jan 6.
- pessimizer 4y ago
  It's the continuation of the unitary executive of the Bush Doctrine that has allowed Presidents to act with impunity, along with the blank checks that Congress writes them in order to avoid responsibility. Mislabeling payoffs to prostitutes is a triviality. > Kind of what happened on Jan 6. A riot by angry admirers of the last President when they overran the White House with only token resistance? You prevent that by arresting him?
  - mjmsmith 4y ago
    You prevent it by not electing someone so obviously unfit for office. Failing that, you discourage it by not giving him reason to believe that he's untouchable. (Sadly, his ragtag army of goons had to learn the hard way.)
cmurf 4y ago
Uhh the guy in this indictment is the president who didn't want to relinquish power before he was charged with crimes. He obviously didn't need to be charged before attempting treason and autocracy.
ouid 4y ago
Well, in this philosophy, there's only one real thing that you should punish presidents for, and that's trying to use their power to keep themselves in power. But Trump did that, so he is exactly the man we should be making an example of.
jen20 4y ago
"as long as possible" is two terms, in the US, no?

flangola7 4y ago

> Why would any future president ever want to relinquish power, when a future of prosecution awaits him. Because if he doesn't relinquish it the other branches will remove him anyway, as was imminent with Nixon. Trump wasn't convicted by the Senate, but his butt was still kicked out of the White House on Inauguration Day. American democracy isn't fantastic but it's still a long way from the President having absolute control. "They will double down if we try to punish them." is a hollow argument that could be used to justify not punishing any crime. A pickpocket might try to run or fight back if he knows he will be punished, but that's not a reason to let him do it, it's a reason to have teams of fit people equipped with tazers and handcuffs that can subdue him anyway.

stuckinhell 4y ago
Richard Nixon won the 1972 U.S. presidential election by a large margin. He defeated the Democratic Party nominee, George McGovern, by winning 60.7% of the popular vote and 520 electoral votes out of 537. This was one of the largest landslides in U.S. presidential election history. It wasn't imminent at all. If Nixon wanted to end the republic as we know it, he nearly could have. He had a insane mandate by the people.
- generj 4y ago
  He didn’t have an insane mandate of Congress, which decidedly was going to impeach him. It took some time and solid investigation but his party wholesale rejected him and made it clear he had no political future. Nixon was could either resign or be humiliatingly fired. We no longer have a Congress which values country over party. There’s a good chance Trump could have murdered someone on 5th Avenue and he still would not have been impeached.
- flangola7 4y ago
  That's an F grade in any high school history class. Nixon's own party made it clear they were going to remove him if he didn't resign. You can't deny undisputed historical facts. It's also safely assumed that a full 60% of the public would not have voted for him if they knew he was going to betray his duty.

krapp 4y ago

>Why would any future president ever want to relinquish power, when a future of prosecution awaits him. Presidents aren't kings, they can't just "use the power of government" to keep themselves in power indefinitely, and they aren't above the law, in or out of office, despite what some of them might say. It doesn't matter if they want to relinquish power or not, their power ends when the Constitution says it does and if a president refuses to leave when the clock runs out, the Marines will put a gun to their head and show them the door. Which is as it should be.

stuckinhell 4y ago
I want to agree, but the Constitution is just a piece of paper, what matters is the will of people to accept or deny it.

singleshot_ 4y ago

“The law” would seem to be a reasonably succinct and correct answer to this question.

nobodyandproud 4y ago

> Why would any future president ever want to relinquish power, when a future of prosecution awaits him. Because the message here is that they will be criminally charged, if they don’t honor the election and the peaceful transfer of power. It’s scary that we have to set this precedent, but it’d be scarier if we don’t.

mercyandgrace 4y ago
> Because the message here is that they will be criminally charged, if they don’t honor the election and the peaceful transfer of power. With something completely unrelated? That's a concerning viewpoint.
- mcphage 4y ago
  > With something completely unrelated? That's a concerning viewpoint. I guess it would be concerning if you commit so many crimes that nobody knew which one you'd actually be charged with first. Me, I just try to not do that.
  - BuyMyBitcoins 4y ago
    >”Me, I just try to not do that.” A well meaning sentiment but we all break the law on a daily basis. The amount of laws in the US Code is staggering and if a motivated DA wants to charge someone of a crime, they’ll find a way. Three Felonies a Day: How the Feds Target the Innocent by Harvey Silvergate is a perfect primer on this subject. From what I understand, this indictment is about accounting and how a payment was classified. Not that the payment itself was illegal, or that it was some bombshell. Some argue it was a legal expense, some argue it should have been a campaign expenditure. It could go either way.
    - mcphage 4y ago
      > A well meaning sentiment but we all break the law on a daily basis. > Some argue it was a legal expense, some argue it should have been a campaign expenditure. Whomst among us has never bought the silence of a porn star using political campaign funds?

mjmsmith 4y ago

Why would a future president think there are any limits whatsoever on his actions, when a future of prosecution will never await him? Kind of what happened on Jan 6.

pessimizer 4y ago
It's the continuation of the unitary executive of the Bush Doctrine that has allowed Presidents to act with impunity, along with the blank checks that Congress writes them in order to avoid responsibility. Mislabeling payoffs to prostitutes is a triviality. > Kind of what happened on Jan 6. A riot by angry admirers of the last President when they overran the White House with only token resistance? You prevent that by arresting him?
- mjmsmith 4y ago
  You prevent it by not electing someone so obviously unfit for office. Failing that, you discourage it by not giving him reason to believe that he's untouchable. (Sadly, his ragtag army of goons had to learn the hard way.)

cmurf 4y ago

Uhh the guy in this indictment is the president who didn't want to relinquish power before he was charged with crimes. He obviously didn't need to be charged before attempting treason and autocracy.

ouid 4y ago

Well, in this philosophy, there's only one real thing that you should punish presidents for, and that's trying to use their power to keep themselves in power. But Trump did that, so he is exactly the man we should be making an example of.

jen20 4y ago

"as long as possible" is two terms, in the US, no?