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Ive heard that 'venv' are very problematic, but honestly, Ive never had a problem. And I used them daily. I understand that it can not be enough on some cases..

by jooz 4y ago

Ive heard that 'venv' are very problematic, but honestly, Ive never had a problem. And I used them daily. I understand that it can not be enough on some cases... that don't concern me. I would recommend to 'python -m venv' and thats all.

bobx11 4y ago
This is also my setup. It has the added benefit of being already included on every python install already so there is nothing extra to use.
hobs 4y ago
Same no problem, different solution - I use pycharm extensively and it manages my venvs 99% of the time with no issues at all, the only time it took me a minute of head scratching was realizing I needed to install a new system python to make a venv with it, but that would be clear if you were doing it via the shell approach you are using as well.
Groxx 4y ago
I've heard a lot (a lot) of complaints that are wildly misattributed to venv (like "version X of Y broke my project"), but I've essentially never heard of issues with venv itself. Aside from needing to know to use it. Which is certainly a problem. But python blessing a single venv-system might be worse in the long run...?
abrichr 4y ago
Agreed, never had a problem with this approach. The only limitation I've encountered is when moving the environment or renaming one of the parent directories. In which case it's easy to create a new one: # optional: freeze the environment if you don't already have a requirements.txt source .venv/bin/activate pip freeze > requirements.txt deactivate # remove the old environment rm -rf .venv # create a new one python3.10 -m venv .venv # activate it source .venv/bin/activate # install the requirements pip install -r requirements.txt
- nicoburns 4y ago
  I've found that venv's work. They're just very inconvenient (having to constantly manage which venv you're in when you change directory). Consider that with NPM, only two of those commands are ever needed: # install the requirements npm install # remove it rm -rf node_modules The rest is unnecessary because NPM uses the equivalent of a venv automatically based on your current working directory and the location of your package.json file.
  - sureglymop 4y ago
    Python has this too, check out PEP 582. There's a package manager called PDM which will just create a __pyoackages__ folder in this style.
    - rami3l 4y ago
      As a PDM enthusiast for quite a while, I'm sorry to inform you that PEP 582 has been officially abandoned (which doesn't mean that it won't be revived someday, just not so easily). https://discuss.python.org/t/pep-582-python-local-packages-directory/963/430 https://discuss.python.org/t/pep-582-python-local-packages-d...
- pepa65 3y ago
  This just illustrates that the most recommended solution is not easy to use, many steps one could forget. And I guess if your package manager happens to update your default python, more/other steps will be necessary...
  - abrichr 3y ago
    Venvs are self contained python environments, no interaction with system python. For those already familiar with venvs, the above just condenses to “remove the old venv and create a new one”.
nagonago 4y ago
I'm curious what these problems are. The only problem I've had with venv is that sometimes I forget to activate it. As the article says, I think these days it's pretty safe to just use Python's built-in venv and stay away from everything else.
tetha 4y ago
This is one of the jenga towers that seem to hold up most reliably for me as well. (i) Use python installed via the package manager. (ii) If python is updated, wipe all venvs, because there can be strange interactions between venvs and the installed python and rebuilding venvs is cheap, and (iii) Work in venvs as much as possible.
BiteCode_dev 4y ago
That's pretty much the take of the article this one references. The whole reason I posted this one is to justify the "just use -m pip and -m venv" stance I wrote in the article 4 days ago. Because you will always have a very vocal minority of people that will fill the threads with counter arguments actually increasing complexity and risks of failure.
atemerev 4y ago
How do you manage python versions with venv? E.g. numba still doesn’t run on my system python 3.11, so I want a 3.10 somewhere, but can’t install it through a package manager, etc.
- 0xDEFACED 4y ago
  If using apt, you can add the deadsnakes repository which allows installing the other versions of python3 not included with your linux distro. Then you can install them with sudo apt install python3.X I also recommend similarly sudo apt install python3.X-venv which allows you to create venvs with whichever python version you have installed python3.X -m venv .venv

by jooz 4y ago

bobx11 4y ago

This is also my setup. It has the added benefit of being already included on every python install already so there is nothing extra to use.

hobs 4y ago

Same no problem, different solution - I use pycharm extensively and it manages my venvs 99% of the time with no issues at all, the only time it took me a minute of head scratching was realizing I needed to install a new system python to make a venv with it, but that would be clear if you were doing it via the shell approach you are using as well.

Groxx 4y ago

I've heard a lot (a lot) of complaints that are wildly misattributed to venv (like "version X of Y broke my project"), but I've essentially never heard of issues with venv itself. Aside from needing to know to use it. Which is certainly a problem. But python blessing a single venv-system might be worse in the long run...?

abrichr 4y ago

Agreed, never had a problem with this approach. The only limitation I've encountered is when moving the environment or renaming one of the parent directories. In which case it's easy to create a new one: # optional: freeze the environment if you don't already have a requirements.txt source .venv/bin/activate pip freeze > requirements.txt deactivate # remove the old environment rm -rf .venv # create a new one python3.10 -m venv .venv # activate it source .venv/bin/activate # install the requirements pip install -r requirements.txt

nicoburns 4y ago
I've found that venv's work. They're just very inconvenient (having to constantly manage which venv you're in when you change directory). Consider that with NPM, only two of those commands are ever needed: # install the requirements npm install # remove it rm -rf node_modules The rest is unnecessary because NPM uses the equivalent of a venv automatically based on your current working directory and the location of your package.json file.
- sureglymop 4y ago
  Python has this too, check out PEP 582. There's a package manager called PDM which will just create a __pyoackages__ folder in this style.
  - rami3l 4y ago
    As a PDM enthusiast for quite a while, I'm sorry to inform you that PEP 582 has been officially abandoned (which doesn't mean that it won't be revived someday, just not so easily). https://discuss.python.org/t/pep-582-python-local-packages-directory/963/430 https://discuss.python.org/t/pep-582-python-local-packages-d...
pepa65 3y ago
This just illustrates that the most recommended solution is not easy to use, many steps one could forget. And I guess if your package manager happens to update your default python, more/other steps will be necessary...
- abrichr 3y ago
  Venvs are self contained python environments, no interaction with system python. For those already familiar with venvs, the above just condenses to “remove the old venv and create a new one”.

nagonago 4y ago

I'm curious what these problems are. The only problem I've had with venv is that sometimes I forget to activate it. As the article says, I think these days it's pretty safe to just use Python's built-in venv and stay away from everything else.

tetha 4y ago

This is one of the jenga towers that seem to hold up most reliably for me as well. (i) Use python installed via the package manager. (ii) If python is updated, wipe all venvs, because there can be strange interactions between venvs and the installed python and rebuilding venvs is cheap, and (iii) Work in venvs as much as possible.

BiteCode_dev 4y ago

That's pretty much the take of the article this one references. The whole reason I posted this one is to justify the "just use -m pip and -m venv" stance I wrote in the article 4 days ago. Because you will always have a very vocal minority of people that will fill the threads with counter arguments actually increasing complexity and risks of failure.

atemerev 4y ago

How do you manage python versions with venv? E.g. numba still doesn’t run on my system python 3.11, so I want a 3.10 somewhere, but can’t install it through a package manager, etc.

0xDEFACED 4y ago
If using apt, you can add the deadsnakes repository which allows installing the other versions of python3 not included with your linux distro. Then you can install them with sudo apt install python3.X I also recommend similarly sudo apt install python3.X-venv which allows you to create venvs with whichever python version you have installed python3.X -m venv .venv