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I sure hope 12V doesn’t happen. 12V is absurdly low for lighting and needs extremely thick wires to get decent efficiency. 24V is okay. 48V would be nicer for

by amluto 4y ago

I sure hope 12V doesn’t happen. 12V is absurdly low for lighting and needs extremely thick wires to get decent efficiency. 24V is okay. 48V would be nicer for indoor use.

brianwawok 4y ago
Wiring up a house with 48V for lights and 120V for plugs would be such a pain. Pulling 2 different wires to every room. Weird circuit breakers. Yuck.
- robocat 4y ago
  Already happens in New Zealand: lighting is usually low current 1mm2 wiring, and everything else is heavier gauge. Circuit breakers mostly care about Amps (all breakers could be rated to mains voltage if you wanted to avoid “weird”). Also low voltage wiring can legally be done by anyone in NZ (a bonus when doing your own work, and a pitfall when buying a house?)
  - garaetjjte 4y ago
    Do not use AC breakers for DC! (they lack arc extinguisher)
- Turskarama 4y ago
  A lot of countries already have lighting on a separate circuit. It means that when something trips a breaker you don't lose all your lights as well.
  - dredmorbius 4y ago
    Lighting (on AC 110v / 220v circuits) also typically is specced for a lower peak amperage than utility or appliance outlets. For US codes, generally 15A rather than 20A. Lighting may use 20A, but isn't required to. Other circuits must be 20A, e.g., kitchen outlets serving appliances. A summary of standards here: <https://www.thespruce.com/common-electrical-codes-by-room-1152276 https://www.thespruce.com/common-electrical-codes-by-room-11...> A 15A lighting circuit can serve up to 14 100W bulbs. Or 150 LEDs drawing 10W each....
- doubleg72 4y ago
  Maybe for you, but I have been considering just this. I would love to have dedicated 24v for lighting and charging of devices. My house already has various systems for lighting, such as xenox throughout kitchen under the cabinets and also the basement. Both are driven from separate transformers. Then I got the rest of the house with can lights utilizing br30 bulbs that are just a waste of 12 awg. The one place I was able to replace with dedicated LED fixture, I had to overpay for a decent product that wouldve been better off as a 24v basic LED light. When you consider most hvac systems operate at 24v, there is some real potential to create a decent standard serving multiple purposes. And besides, idk if you have ever pulled 12ga wire, but it's a pita. Idk any electrician that would agree with you saying it would be a pain to cut back on heavy wire and pull half that with light 22 awg.
- hd95489 4y ago
  Why? Modern code requires a separate lighting power runs
robocat 4y ago
> needs extremely thick wires Not extremely thick. Wire losses remain similar at 12V as they were at 110V (Replace 100W bulb with a 10W bulb at 12V, current remains ~1A so wire losses stay the same as the were). Wire losses might be say 1W for 1mm2 cabling. 240V example: https://ausinet.com.au/voltage-drop/ https://ausinet.com.au/voltage-drop/ Agree that it is worth upping voltage to chase a few more percent savings, but still need to consider other constraints.
dredmorbius 4y ago
Fair enough. DC then, of some reasonable voltage.
mark-r 4y ago
Are there sockets for 24V or 48V bulbs that could be standardized on?
- cogman10 4y ago
  This is what I want. A standard 48VDC socket would be a game changer for lighting. Heck, with such a standard you could have 120VAC -> 48VDC converters and you'd be in the same position we are today with Leds, only better because you'd just have to replace the converter and not the whole bulb.

by amluto 4y ago

I sure hope 12V doesn’t happen. 12V is absurdly low for lighting and needs extremely thick wires to get decent efficiency. 24V is okay. 48V would be nicer for indoor use.

brianwawok 4y ago

Wiring up a house with 48V for lights and 120V for plugs would be such a pain. Pulling 2 different wires to every room. Weird circuit breakers. Yuck.

robocat 4y ago
Already happens in New Zealand: lighting is usually low current 1mm2 wiring, and everything else is heavier gauge. Circuit breakers mostly care about Amps (all breakers could be rated to mains voltage if you wanted to avoid “weird”). Also low voltage wiring can legally be done by anyone in NZ (a bonus when doing your own work, and a pitfall when buying a house?)
- garaetjjte 4y ago
  Do not use AC breakers for DC! (they lack arc extinguisher)
Turskarama 4y ago
A lot of countries already have lighting on a separate circuit. It means that when something trips a breaker you don't lose all your lights as well.
- dredmorbius 4y ago
  Lighting (on AC 110v / 220v circuits) also typically is specced for a lower peak amperage than utility or appliance outlets. For US codes, generally 15A rather than 20A. Lighting may use 20A, but isn't required to. Other circuits must be 20A, e.g., kitchen outlets serving appliances. A summary of standards here: <https://www.thespruce.com/common-electrical-codes-by-room-1152276 https://www.thespruce.com/common-electrical-codes-by-room-11...> A 15A lighting circuit can serve up to 14 100W bulbs. Or 150 LEDs drawing 10W each....
doubleg72 4y ago
Maybe for you, but I have been considering just this. I would love to have dedicated 24v for lighting and charging of devices. My house already has various systems for lighting, such as xenox throughout kitchen under the cabinets and also the basement. Both are driven from separate transformers. Then I got the rest of the house with can lights utilizing br30 bulbs that are just a waste of 12 awg. The one place I was able to replace with dedicated LED fixture, I had to overpay for a decent product that wouldve been better off as a 24v basic LED light. When you consider most hvac systems operate at 24v, there is some real potential to create a decent standard serving multiple purposes. And besides, idk if you have ever pulled 12ga wire, but it's a pita. Idk any electrician that would agree with you saying it would be a pain to cut back on heavy wire and pull half that with light 22 awg.
hd95489 4y ago
Why? Modern code requires a separate lighting power runs

robocat 4y ago

> needs extremely thick wires Not extremely thick. Wire losses remain similar at 12V as they were at 110V (Replace 100W bulb with a 10W bulb at 12V, current remains ~1A so wire losses stay the same as the were). Wire losses might be say 1W for 1mm2 cabling. 240V example: https://ausinet.com.au/voltage-drop/ https://ausinet.com.au/voltage-drop/ Agree that it is worth upping voltage to chase a few more percent savings, but still need to consider other constraints.

dredmorbius 4y ago

Fair enough. DC then, of some reasonable voltage.

mark-r 4y ago

Are there sockets for 24V or 48V bulbs that could be standardized on?

cogman10 4y ago
This is what I want. A standard 48VDC socket would be a game changer for lighting. Heck, with such a standard you could have 120VAC -> 48VDC converters and you'd be in the same position we are today with Leds, only better because you'd just have to replace the converter and not the whole bulb.