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This looks really cool! But rather than building from scratch or making extensive hardware modifications, it makes me wonder if anyone has tried developing open

This looks really cool! But rather than building from scratch or making extensive hardware modifications, it makes me wonder if anyone has tried developing open-source firmware for existing espresso machines? I have a Delonghi bean-to-cup machine. It's quite capable of making decent coffee but also has some unfortunate software behaviours that result in inconsistent output. Most annoyingly, it gives extremely limited control over grind time and thus the quantity of grounds in each shot. If the hopper runs out of beans or you switch to a different type of beans, it gets confused and tries to adjust the grind time on it's own, usually overcompensating and resulting in either too much coffee in the shot (pump struggles to express anything) or too little (thin, bitter, over-extracted shot). If I could control grind time precicely, it would hugely improve the consistency my coffee. I could set up a profile for each type of bean that I use and fine-tune my shots. Has anyone tried to hack or customise software on Delonghi (or any other) bean-to-cup machine? Any projects out there to do this?

orangepurple 4y ago
I ripped out the vast majority of the internal wiring and all of the temperature sensors inside the Delonghi EC155 and replaced it with an eBay PID controller, solid state relay (SSR), and thermocouple for $25. It is tuned nearly perfectly with only 1 degree of overshoot most of the time. It works very well. I left the switch for the pump but nothing else. It can make espresso but I only use it for steam these days. Bean origin and processing matters a lot but most people don't process beans themselves so people generally have to trust others for this step. However, you will have to grind your own beans. Grind fineness is by far the most important variable to control. The correct grind fineness is determined by achieving an appropriate flow rate given a valid pressure profile (typically 9 bars continuous). The performance of any espresso machine is a direct consequence of the fineness and consistency of the grind. No machine can make up for a poor grind. A crappy machine can often make good espresso if the grind is good. Invest heavily in a good grinder. I do not like to extra spend money for electronics that I could never maintain or fix myself, so I opted for a manual grinder with premium conical burrs. I make espresso with an Espresso Forge (https://espressoforge.com/ https://espressoforge.com/) which effectively has no moving parts, electronics, and only food grade metal. Just a piston that you ram in by hand.
- Reason077 4y ago
  I'm talking about an automatic, bean-to-cup machine here, which has it's own built-in grinder. Specifically the ECAM 350.35.W, but there are many Delonghi models which have very similar hardware inside. It gives precise control over the grind fineness, but tries to manage the grind time (and thus volume of coffee in the puck) itself. The software that does this isn't very smart and that's where the problems lie...
  - orangepurple 4y ago
    The juice just ain't worth the squeeze. Go simple and see how much you can improve the flavor of your coffee.
    - eightysixfour 4y ago
      Maybe they want to do it for fun?
      - WillPostForFood 4y ago
        That's not what they said though, they were asking about improving the output quality. If I could control grind time precicely, it would hugely improve the consistency my coffee. I could set up a profile for each type of bean that I use and fine-tune my shots. Bean to cup espresso machines are good for what they are, but not a good base for making great coffee, and software hacking can't fix the hardware limitations.
        Reason077 4y ago
        To be clear, my bean to cup machine does make great coffee! Could I make even better coffee with a fancy manual espresso machine and investing a lot of my time in learning and using and cleaning it? Sure, probably. But it's not really worth my time. I'd spend half my morning making coffee when all I really want is to be drinking coffee. Anecdote: at my previous London flat, I had my bean-to-cup machine and one of my flatmates had a fancy manual machine. He knew how to use it, too, having once worked as a barista. But which machine do you think everyone actually used every morning? The manual one ended up getting put away in a cupboard most of the time! (... and my former flatmate still jokes about how much he misses my coffee machine when I see him, haha) This isn't to say that a manual machine doesn't make better coffee than a bean to cup, in the right hands. But for most people, the difference isn't worth the time and effort required to get there. > "software hacking can't fix the hardware limitations" In this case, I believe it would, because the machine does make great coffee when it gets everything right. Specifically the grind time / volume of grinds in the shot. The issue is the consistency, and the software's poor behaviour in wildly changing the grind time when something throws it out of equilibrium (ie: change to different beans, or hopper runs out of beans)
eightysixfour 4y ago
There has been some folks that have hacked on these machines, although not for specifically what you describe. Here’s an example https://medium.com/root-ventures/the-best-office-coffee-youll-ever-have-6fe9e190c2d2 https://medium.com/root-ventures/the-best-office-coffee-youl...
cycomanic 4y ago
Actually the most loved consumer espresso machines (the gaggia mentioned in the article and the rancilio Silvia) are analog and don't have Firmware. That said there are a number of projects (as also mentioned in the article) to add PID controllers, pressure controllers etc via some microboards.

orangepurple 4y ago

I ripped out the vast majority of the internal wiring and all of the temperature sensors inside the Delonghi EC155 and replaced it with an eBay PID controller, solid state relay (SSR), and thermocouple for $25. It is tuned nearly perfectly with only 1 degree of overshoot most of the time. It works very well. I left the switch for the pump but nothing else. It can make espresso but I only use it for steam these days. Bean origin and processing matters a lot but most people don't process beans themselves so people generally have to trust others for this step. However, you will have to grind your own beans. Grind fineness is by far the most important variable to control. The correct grind fineness is determined by achieving an appropriate flow rate given a valid pressure profile (typically 9 bars continuous). The performance of any espresso machine is a direct consequence of the fineness and consistency of the grind. No machine can make up for a poor grind. A crappy machine can often make good espresso if the grind is good. Invest heavily in a good grinder. I do not like to extra spend money for electronics that I could never maintain or fix myself, so I opted for a manual grinder with premium conical burrs. I make espresso with an Espresso Forge (https://espressoforge.com/ https://espressoforge.com/) which effectively has no moving parts, electronics, and only food grade metal. Just a piston that you ram in by hand.

Reason077 4y ago
I'm talking about an automatic, bean-to-cup machine here, which has it's own built-in grinder. Specifically the ECAM 350.35.W, but there are many Delonghi models which have very similar hardware inside. It gives precise control over the grind fineness, but tries to manage the grind time (and thus volume of coffee in the puck) itself. The software that does this isn't very smart and that's where the problems lie...
- orangepurple 4y ago
  The juice just ain't worth the squeeze. Go simple and see how much you can improve the flavor of your coffee.
  - eightysixfour 4y ago
    Maybe they want to do it for fun?
    - WillPostForFood 4y ago
      That's not what they said though, they were asking about improving the output quality. If I could control grind time precicely, it would hugely improve the consistency my coffee. I could set up a profile for each type of bean that I use and fine-tune my shots. Bean to cup espresso machines are good for what they are, but not a good base for making great coffee, and software hacking can't fix the hardware limitations.
      - Reason077 4y ago
        To be clear, my bean to cup machine does make great coffee! Could I make even better coffee with a fancy manual espresso machine and investing a lot of my time in learning and using and cleaning it? Sure, probably. But it's not really worth my time. I'd spend half my morning making coffee when all I really want is to be drinking coffee. Anecdote: at my previous London flat, I had my bean-to-cup machine and one of my flatmates had a fancy manual machine. He knew how to use it, too, having once worked as a barista. But which machine do you think everyone actually used every morning? The manual one ended up getting put away in a cupboard most of the time! (... and my former flatmate still jokes about how much he misses my coffee machine when I see him, haha) This isn't to say that a manual machine doesn't make better coffee than a bean to cup, in the right hands. But for most people, the difference isn't worth the time and effort required to get there. > "software hacking can't fix the hardware limitations" In this case, I believe it would, because the machine does make great coffee when it gets everything right. Specifically the grind time / volume of grinds in the shot. The issue is the consistency, and the software's poor behaviour in wildly changing the grind time when something throws it out of equilibrium (ie: change to different beans, or hopper runs out of beans)

eightysixfour 4y ago

There has been some folks that have hacked on these machines, although not for specifically what you describe. Here’s an example https://medium.com/root-ventures/the-best-office-coffee-youll-ever-have-6fe9e190c2d2 https://medium.com/root-ventures/the-best-office-coffee-youl...

cycomanic 4y ago

Actually the most loved consumer espresso machines (the gaggia mentioned in the article and the rancilio Silvia) are analog and don't have Firmware. That said there are a number of projects (as also mentioned in the article) to add PID controllers, pressure controllers etc via some microboards.