6 ms·

The problem is, as always, the MBAs.

rusk 4y ago
It’s not MBAs place to set public policy though is it? If it’s the MBA’s fault at all it’s because they’re doing their job which is optimising the product to the market. If the markets not optimising the right things then that’s a failure in the market. Maybe the market is being manipulated somehow has it was for the old incandescent bulbs - but that’s not necessarily the fault of the management tier … some economise regulate for consumer value … some for profit
- adgjlsfhk1 4y ago
  The problem is that people have a limited amount of caring and markets are really good at taking advantage of consumer ignorance. If you care about color rendering but don't know what color rendering is, you can't shop for it (and if you do know what it is you can't shop for it if it's not on the spec sheet).
  - rusk 4y ago
    Sounds like issues that could be solved by some market regulation - rules about labelling - etc etc but to many that would be tantamount communism
    - raintrees 4y ago
      Instead of force, maybe voluntary? Publish/promote a set of standard measurements for consumers, then let consumers drive the manufacturers. "The Market" will follow the consumer if the consumer is strongly inclined about its desires - I think we have seen this play out in other consumer electronics niches... When I was a teen, I wanted an alligator on my shirt, and not too long after I started seeing simulacra shirts... Enough of a demand for more than one entity to mimic it...
  - mcronce 4y ago
    > if you do know what it is you can't shop for it if it's not on the spec sheet This drives me absolutely insane. When we were shopping for a TV for the living room a few years ago I wanted a 120Hz display. Finding one was a pain in the ass because all anybody wanted to list in marketing material was the backlight strobe rate; you had to dig and dig to find the panel rate. No, I don't care that you can flash the backlight at a thousand Hz, I want an actual panel that's well synchronized with 24FPS content, and I don't want to spend hours of research to figure out which displays have one.
  - kansface 4y ago
    Yeah, I'm back to wanting a curated shopping experience. I don't want the cheapest thing. I don't want multiple options- thats worse than nothing. I don't want to worry about counterfeits or knockoffs. I don't want to do research, consult the relevant /r and then look through comment history to see who is paid to say what. I want a store to have an opinion and stock high quality stuff. I would happily pay a premium to offload decision making.
- roughly 4y ago
  It remains the case that you don't discard your identity as a person or personal responsibility when taking a job somewhere, and the purpose of an MBA for the last 40 years has been to produce crappier products for less money while charging consumers the same amount. It's not the MBAs place to set public policy, but it's also broadly an admission of some kind of serious cultural failure to say we need public policy to prevent a large group of people from stripping everything they get their hands on down to the studs for short-term gain, and it doesn't say great things about that group of people, either.
Havoc 4y ago
Painfully broad generalisation
greggsy 4y ago
I have an MBA. It’s not mine or any of my peer’s jobs to provide crap products to ends users - thats up to shareholders to decide.
- SargeDebian 4y ago
  How does that work? The head of engineering gets a unit cost reduction target and then they call some shareholders to come review some proposals for which option works best? Do they show up with a printed certificate showing they own at least one share?
  - kube-system 4y ago
    Public companies are required to hold annual meetings with shareholders where they vote for board members and bring up proposals. Shareholders may choose to vote for board member with views about managing the business that they agree with. https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/040315/what-can-shareholders-vote.asp https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/040315/what-can-sha...
- Phlarp 4y ago
  Pass that buck on down the line.
- bandyaboot 4y ago
  So what would you say you do here?
- transcriptase 4y ago
  It’s your job to decide whether to make the world slightly worse and make an extra dollar, or maintain/improve quality while finding efficiencies elsewhere. The second option may be more difficult but let’s not pretend there aren’t companies that choose it and succeed.
  - greggsy 4y ago
    That’s a very ignorant perspective. For me, it’s rarely about efficiency, and almost always about improving outcomes for workers and users. Micromanaging efficacy to maximise profit is an economists job. If the general public wants a cheap, bad product, they can do so, but they rarely have the inside knowledge to discern quality. Marketing is responsible for telling miseducating them.
dyno12345 4y ago
it doesn't take a degree to figure out when consumers are only comparing prices when shopping
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

rusk 4y ago

It’s not MBAs place to set public policy though is it? If it’s the MBA’s fault at all it’s because they’re doing their job which is optimising the product to the market. If the markets not optimising the right things then that’s a failure in the market. Maybe the market is being manipulated somehow has it was for the old incandescent bulbs - but that’s not necessarily the fault of the management tier … some economise regulate for consumer value … some for profit

adgjlsfhk1 4y ago
The problem is that people have a limited amount of caring and markets are really good at taking advantage of consumer ignorance. If you care about color rendering but don't know what color rendering is, you can't shop for it (and if you do know what it is you can't shop for it if it's not on the spec sheet).
- rusk 4y ago
  Sounds like issues that could be solved by some market regulation - rules about labelling - etc etc but to many that would be tantamount communism
  - raintrees 4y ago
    Instead of force, maybe voluntary? Publish/promote a set of standard measurements for consumers, then let consumers drive the manufacturers. "The Market" will follow the consumer if the consumer is strongly inclined about its desires - I think we have seen this play out in other consumer electronics niches... When I was a teen, I wanted an alligator on my shirt, and not too long after I started seeing simulacra shirts... Enough of a demand for more than one entity to mimic it...
- mcronce 4y ago
  > if you do know what it is you can't shop for it if it's not on the spec sheet This drives me absolutely insane. When we were shopping for a TV for the living room a few years ago I wanted a 120Hz display. Finding one was a pain in the ass because all anybody wanted to list in marketing material was the backlight strobe rate; you had to dig and dig to find the panel rate. No, I don't care that you can flash the backlight at a thousand Hz, I want an actual panel that's well synchronized with 24FPS content, and I don't want to spend hours of research to figure out which displays have one.
- kansface 4y ago
  Yeah, I'm back to wanting a curated shopping experience. I don't want the cheapest thing. I don't want multiple options- thats worse than nothing. I don't want to worry about counterfeits or knockoffs. I don't want to do research, consult the relevant /r and then look through comment history to see who is paid to say what. I want a store to have an opinion and stock high quality stuff. I would happily pay a premium to offload decision making.
roughly 4y ago
It remains the case that you don't discard your identity as a person or personal responsibility when taking a job somewhere, and the purpose of an MBA for the last 40 years has been to produce crappier products for less money while charging consumers the same amount. It's not the MBAs place to set public policy, but it's also broadly an admission of some kind of serious cultural failure to say we need public policy to prevent a large group of people from stripping everything they get their hands on down to the studs for short-term gain, and it doesn't say great things about that group of people, either.

Havoc 4y ago

Painfully broad generalisation

greggsy 4y ago

I have an MBA. It’s not mine or any of my peer’s jobs to provide crap products to ends users - thats up to shareholders to decide.

SargeDebian 4y ago
How does that work? The head of engineering gets a unit cost reduction target and then they call some shareholders to come review some proposals for which option works best? Do they show up with a printed certificate showing they own at least one share?
- kube-system 4y ago
  Public companies are required to hold annual meetings with shareholders where they vote for board members and bring up proposals. Shareholders may choose to vote for board member with views about managing the business that they agree with. https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/040315/what-can-shareholders-vote.asp https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/040315/what-can-sha...
Phlarp 4y ago
Pass that buck on down the line.
bandyaboot 4y ago
So what would you say you do here?
transcriptase 4y ago
It’s your job to decide whether to make the world slightly worse and make an extra dollar, or maintain/improve quality while finding efficiencies elsewhere. The second option may be more difficult but let’s not pretend there aren’t companies that choose it and succeed.
- greggsy 4y ago
  That’s a very ignorant perspective. For me, it’s rarely about efficiency, and almost always about improving outcomes for workers and users. Micromanaging efficacy to maximise profit is an economists job. If the general public wants a cheap, bad product, they can do so, but they rarely have the inside knowledge to discern quality. Marketing is responsible for telling miseducating them.

dyno12345 4y ago

it doesn't take a degree to figure out when consumers are only comparing prices when shopping

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]