4 ms·

I love stories about America violating sovreign airspace, especially when they use such a cool plane. The entire world is truly their own backyard!

igravious 4y ago
The days of America violating sovereign airspace are drawing to a close, thankfully. “The United States-initiated aerial bombing of targets inside the borders of the Libyan Arab Jamahiriyah which took place on April 15, 1986, was met with substantial and immediate criticism by the world community. The positive reaction from the U.S. congress and the American public was not shared by much of the world. Arab nations denounced the American action, as did the Organization of Petroleum Exporting Countries. In meetings of the UN Security Council, countries denouncing the raid outnumbered those which supported it. Good article: “American Bombing of Libya: An International Legal Analysis” (1987) https://scholarlycommons.law.case.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1722&context=jil https://scholarlycommons.law.case.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?ar...
- closewith 4y ago
  > The days of America violating sovereign airspace are drawing to a close, thankfully. They're still overflying Afghanistan and who knows where else.
- arcanemachiner 4y ago
  I wouldn't hold my breath... The US launched an airstrike in an illegally-occupied (Syria) nation less than a week ago. https://news.antiwar.com/2023/03/25/us-carries-out-airstrikes-in-syria-multiple-american-bases-attacked/ https://news.antiwar.com/2023/03/25/us-carries-out-airstrike...
  - oh_sigh 4y ago
    Illegally occupied according to who?
    - Iwan-Zotow 4y ago
      mmm... to anyone who could read? I mean, could you say why us troops are in Syrian oil fields stealing oil?
      - oh_sigh 4y ago
        Under the laws of what group is American presence in Syria illegal? Is it American laws? The UN? Syrian laws?
        slim 4y ago
        the un
        igravious 4y ago
        Both international law (the US has no UN mandate) and national/domestic Syrian law. “End America’s Illegal Occupation of Syria Now: Our presence there is a violation of domestic and international law that’s made a horrible civil war even worse.” https://www.cato.org/commentary/end-americas-illegal-occupation-syria-now# https://www.cato.org/commentary/end-americas-illegal-occupat...
- thepasswordis 4y ago
  Ah yes, because surely when the US stops patrolling the seas and skies of this planet, nobody else will try. We will finally have our peaceful utopia once that pesky United States is out of the way!
  - mardifoufs 4y ago
    Yes because the US has to patrol the skies of libya, otherwise the entire world will collapse. See? Strawmaning an argument is very easy to do, I can do it too!
davidu 4y ago
The world hates that the US is the world police, but then constantly demands the US be the world police.
- postsantum 4y ago
  >but then constantly demands the US be the world police Que?
  - polski-g 4y ago
    Europe isn't even willing to fund their own militaries.
    - postsantum 4y ago
      That's right, so you'd had to think outside the box and create demand
- mardifoufs 4y ago
  There is a huge difference between patrolling international tradeways or helping nato allies, and invading or violating foreign countries on a whim with absolutely 0 consequences.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - snovv_crash 4y ago
    I hate to be cynical, but if they don't do the other stuff as well, what's in it for them?
    - mardifoufs 4y ago
      Well for one thing the US genuinely seems to be a lot less imperialistic these days. I mean, not militarily at least, I'm sure they are still involved in all kinds of meddling but with less military muscle flexing. It started with Trump but Biden seem to thankfully have kept the same less-interventionist policy. So I guess they have found a way to not do the other stuff, thankfully. I guess it could just be a return back to the mean from the absolutely, unashamed military imperialism of the 1980s- early 2010s.
CircleSpokes 4y ago
What a ridiculous thing to say. Do you think the Libyan intelligence service gets to bomb dance clubs and then cry sovereignty when someone bombs some military targets in Libya? I don't know if you are ignorant of the situation or if you truly believe a country cannot retaliate against an attack against their citizens and allies. (This story and the bombing campaigned being photographed by the SR71 was a direct response to the West Berlin discotheque bombing in 1986). >The entire world is truly their own backyard! Yes..? If you are a state actor like Libya and you attack other nations civilians to cause terror then they have the right to attack you back. The US bombing Gaddafi's compounds and some other military targets in Libya was 100% justified. To act like a country can't retaliate in such a situation is honestly childish.
- 4gotunameagain 4y ago
  Well, nobody presented evidence that Libya was behind the La Belle bombing. If you think that some shady arm of US intelligence isn't capable of such a heinous false flag operation, I urge you to read more history. Now I'm not saying it was one, I'm saying we have no idea who was behind it.
  - CircleSpokes 4y ago
    Because real life isn't a TV show. That isn't how national security agencies work. They don't dump raw intelligence to the public. The US knew it was Libya obviously, and the data released since then has proved that. Hell even the Stasi & the soviets knew it was Libya. Again this isn't a TV show. No country needs permission to react to an attack against them by another state like Libya.
    - 4gotunameagain 4y ago
      Oh, so your advice is to blindly trust whatever they shovel into the public's mouths ? I totally trust US three letter organisations, and cannot see what could possibly go wrong as they have never shown signs of incompetence and malice in the past. The fact that the stasi thought it was the Libyans could very well mean that it was a very successful false flag operation. This is the problem with the intelligence apparatus. It is war against the truth.
rocket_surgeron 4y ago
The SR-71s were over Libya in 1986 because the Libyan secret service detonated a bomb in a Berlin nightclub, killing 3 and wounding hundreds, ten days prior. "oh yeah well what abou.." With all due respect, stop.
- mardifoufs 4y ago
  Ah yes, the US said so. You should probably look into the actual investigations and events before telling other people to stop. Almost no european country agrees with the conclusion of the US government (that bombed libya in a matter of days, before any investigation started to begin with). A government that was back then almost frothing at the mouth at any occasion to blame everything on the libyans, to a comical degree. Which was well known, and also the reason why most european countries did not agree with the intervention that we are discussing
  - Rebelgecko 4y ago
    I mean, Germany said so too and the bombing happened in their country. They even convinced other European countries to extradite the suspects who were later convicted
scottyah 4y ago
There is no international law (or agreement) defining the vertical boundary of a nation’s sovereign territory/airspace, but I guarantee no Libyans were up at 80,000'.

igravious 4y ago

The days of America violating sovereign airspace are drawing to a close, thankfully. “The United States-initiated aerial bombing of targets inside the borders of the Libyan Arab Jamahiriyah which took place on April 15, 1986, was met with substantial and immediate criticism by the world community. The positive reaction from the U.S. congress and the American public was not shared by much of the world. Arab nations denounced the American action, as did the Organization of Petroleum Exporting Countries. In meetings of the UN Security Council, countries denouncing the raid outnumbered those which supported it. Good article: “American Bombing of Libya: An International Legal Analysis” (1987) https://scholarlycommons.law.case.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1722&context=jil https://scholarlycommons.law.case.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?ar...

closewith 4y ago
> The days of America violating sovereign airspace are drawing to a close, thankfully. They're still overflying Afghanistan and who knows where else.
arcanemachiner 4y ago
I wouldn't hold my breath... The US launched an airstrike in an illegally-occupied (Syria) nation less than a week ago. https://news.antiwar.com/2023/03/25/us-carries-out-airstrikes-in-syria-multiple-american-bases-attacked/ https://news.antiwar.com/2023/03/25/us-carries-out-airstrike...
- oh_sigh 4y ago
  Illegally occupied according to who?
  - Iwan-Zotow 4y ago
    mmm... to anyone who could read? I mean, could you say why us troops are in Syrian oil fields stealing oil?
    - oh_sigh 4y ago
      Under the laws of what group is American presence in Syria illegal? Is it American laws? The UN? Syrian laws?
      - slim 4y ago
        the un
      - igravious 4y ago
        Both international law (the US has no UN mandate) and national/domestic Syrian law. “End America’s Illegal Occupation of Syria Now: Our presence there is a violation of domestic and international law that’s made a horrible civil war even worse.” https://www.cato.org/commentary/end-americas-illegal-occupation-syria-now# https://www.cato.org/commentary/end-americas-illegal-occupat...
thepasswordis 4y ago
Ah yes, because surely when the US stops patrolling the seas and skies of this planet, nobody else will try. We will finally have our peaceful utopia once that pesky United States is out of the way!
- mardifoufs 4y ago
  Yes because the US has to patrol the skies of libya, otherwise the entire world will collapse. See? Strawmaning an argument is very easy to do, I can do it too!

davidu 4y ago

The world hates that the US is the world police, but then constantly demands the US be the world police.

postsantum 4y ago
>but then constantly demands the US be the world police Que?
- polski-g 4y ago
  Europe isn't even willing to fund their own militaries.
  - postsantum 4y ago
    That's right, so you'd had to think outside the box and create demand
mardifoufs 4y ago
There is a huge difference between patrolling international tradeways or helping nato allies, and invading or violating foreign countries on a whim with absolutely 0 consequences.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- snovv_crash 4y ago
  I hate to be cynical, but if they don't do the other stuff as well, what's in it for them?
  - mardifoufs 4y ago
    Well for one thing the US genuinely seems to be a lot less imperialistic these days. I mean, not militarily at least, I'm sure they are still involved in all kinds of meddling but with less military muscle flexing. It started with Trump but Biden seem to thankfully have kept the same less-interventionist policy. So I guess they have found a way to not do the other stuff, thankfully. I guess it could just be a return back to the mean from the absolutely, unashamed military imperialism of the 1980s- early 2010s.

CircleSpokes 4y ago

What a ridiculous thing to say. Do you think the Libyan intelligence service gets to bomb dance clubs and then cry sovereignty when someone bombs some military targets in Libya? I don't know if you are ignorant of the situation or if you truly believe a country cannot retaliate against an attack against their citizens and allies. (This story and the bombing campaigned being photographed by the SR71 was a direct response to the West Berlin discotheque bombing in 1986). >The entire world is truly their own backyard! Yes..? If you are a state actor like Libya and you attack other nations civilians to cause terror then they have the right to attack you back. The US bombing Gaddafi's compounds and some other military targets in Libya was 100% justified. To act like a country can't retaliate in such a situation is honestly childish.

4gotunameagain 4y ago
Well, nobody presented evidence that Libya was behind the La Belle bombing. If you think that some shady arm of US intelligence isn't capable of such a heinous false flag operation, I urge you to read more history. Now I'm not saying it was one, I'm saying we have no idea who was behind it.
- CircleSpokes 4y ago
  Because real life isn't a TV show. That isn't how national security agencies work. They don't dump raw intelligence to the public. The US knew it was Libya obviously, and the data released since then has proved that. Hell even the Stasi & the soviets knew it was Libya. Again this isn't a TV show. No country needs permission to react to an attack against them by another state like Libya.
  - 4gotunameagain 4y ago
    Oh, so your advice is to blindly trust whatever they shovel into the public's mouths ? I totally trust US three letter organisations, and cannot see what could possibly go wrong as they have never shown signs of incompetence and malice in the past. The fact that the stasi thought it was the Libyans could very well mean that it was a very successful false flag operation. This is the problem with the intelligence apparatus. It is war against the truth.

rocket_surgeron 4y ago

The SR-71s were over Libya in 1986 because the Libyan secret service detonated a bomb in a Berlin nightclub, killing 3 and wounding hundreds, ten days prior. "oh yeah well what abou.." With all due respect, stop.

mardifoufs 4y ago
Ah yes, the US said so. You should probably look into the actual investigations and events before telling other people to stop. Almost no european country agrees with the conclusion of the US government (that bombed libya in a matter of days, before any investigation started to begin with). A government that was back then almost frothing at the mouth at any occasion to blame everything on the libyans, to a comical degree. Which was well known, and also the reason why most european countries did not agree with the intervention that we are discussing
- Rebelgecko 4y ago
  I mean, Germany said so too and the bombing happened in their country. They even convinced other European countries to extradite the suspects who were later convicted

scottyah 4y ago

There is no international law (or agreement) defining the vertical boundary of a nation’s sovereign territory/airspace, but I guarantee no Libyans were up at 80,000'.