5 ms·

I hear this all the time, and these workplace-focused descriptions of "phases of underperformance" really apply to me, but I don't think it's ADHD. I can focus

by tr3ntg 4y ago

I hear this all the time, and these workplace-focused descriptions of "phases of underperformance" really apply to me, but I don't think it's ADHD. I can focus on all sorts of things when I try, and when I look up symptoms of ADHD, maybe just 5% apply to me. For me, I've joined new teams and crushed it for a few weeks where it was at least expected performance, but then I quickly fall off a cliff for seemingly no reason. Anxiety compounds this, and I can identify why I've sometimes been slow to crawl out, but the initial fall is always difficult to diagnose.

gavinmckenzie 4y ago
I was diagnosed ADD (or what would now be called inattentive ADHD) in my 30s. But the testing results were not clear, in part because I'd developed a lifetime of coping mechanisms and skills that allow me to behave in non-ADHD ways through force of will. If I look back at my primary school report cards, they are a mixture of both gifted and below-average performance with teacher comments like "Does amazing work when he applies himself". That sudden lack of motivation or drop in performance on tasks that we previously excelled at is also classic ADHD. Anxiety is often a comorbidity, stemming from a feeling of inconsistent failure and lack of control. Though my understanding is that anxiety may be more present in women sufferers of ADHD where the disease manifests differently than in men. All of this to say that you may feel like a DSM definition of ADHD doesn't map onto your experience, but that may be because you're an adult who has a lifetime of adaptation.
- UncleOxidant 4y ago
  I'll be 60 in a few months and looking back I've tended to think that anxiety has been the main thing that held me back in my career, but I can also relate to the post above where they say they do great in the early days of a job/project, but as time goes on find it more and more difficult to stay engaged. I guess I would think this is caused by anxiety in my case, but now I'm wondering if maybe there isn't more going on. I also got mixed results in school: gifted in subjects I liked, average/below averages performance in subjects I didn't care much about. So maybe there's always been a bit of an issue, but I also tend to think that it's much worse since the advent of smart phones - I think there may be a lot of us who were either not ADHD or just on the edge of being ADHD that have been pushed over the edge by being constantly connected.
  - gavinmckenzie 4y ago
    Yes, my understanding is that some people present with anxiety (and/or depression), and that anxiety will become the focus of treatment by their doctor or psychologist, when in fact the anxiety stems from the undiagnosed ADHD. For these people, treating the anxiety alone isn't very effective, compared to getting an ADHD diagnosis and treatment plan that also has a positive impact on the anxiety symptoms. Anecdotally I've seen this scenario play out in my own family.
    - jackvalentine 4y ago
      This whole thread has been a gut punch. My sister and her kid were recently diagnosed with ADHD and combining that fact with what has been described here I need to go see someone myself I think. I have been on the anxiety treatment path before and what you describe rings true with me.
prometheus76 4y ago
A frequent refrain from parents of kids diagnosed with ADHD: "My kid doesn't have problems with attention! He can play a video game for 10 hours straight! I have to tell him to go to the bathroom!" It's actually misnamed and many professionals are trying to shift the name to "Executive Function Disorder". The dysregulation swings both ways: can't focus on uninteresting things, but hyperfocus on interesting things. You might want to do some more research, because the resulting anxiety that you also mentioned is almost always co-morbid with ADHD. --a fellow diagnosed-as-an-adult ADHD guy who didn't know that was my problem until I was in my mid 30s. P.S. another common sign: "Johnny is a delight to have in class, but he's not working to his potential." or "Johnny gets all of his work done quickly and it's stellar work, but then he is a frequent distraction to those around him." or "Class clown who is not working to potential."
- yamtaddle 4y ago
  > "Johnny gets all of his work done quickly and it's stellar work, but then he is a frequent distraction to those around him." Yep, a variant on bright/"gifted" + ADHD presentation. ADHD as fuck, but smart enough that they get by kinda OK-ish regardless, and maybe even excel... until, perhaps, one day, that's not enough anymore and everything falls apart. The intelligence masks the ADHD enough that it might go undiagnosed and untreated for a long time. Fortunately, spotting these kinds of "twice exceptional" situations is a big focus in modern gifted education, so that's getting a bit better.
- sph 4y ago
  > It's actually misnamed and many professionals are trying to shift the name to "Executive Function Disorder". The way I describe it in a few words: focus and motivation are outside my control. I have no say in how they operate and what activates them.
yamtaddle 4y ago
I think that one SlateStarCodex post about modern office work tending to make any normal person exhibit strong ADHD symptoms was on to something.
- UncleOxidant 4y ago
  Not disagreeing, but I guess I'd go further: having immediate access to all the information available on the internet has made many normal people ADHD. Smart phones took it a step further: all that access was now in your pocket. Add in social media and how many people aren't essentially ADHD now?
- srcreigh 4y ago
  Common trope wrt autism as well. It’s not really accurate. There’s plenty of high performing office workers.
steveklabnik 4y ago
> maybe just 5% apply to me. The clinical descriptions of these sorts of things are evolving; first it was ADD, then it was ADHD, now it's often talked about as three things, ADHD-H (hyperactive), ADHD-I (impulsive), and ADHD-C (combined). Furthermore, sometimes folks have developed coping mechanisms, you may have a handle on behaviors in some context, but if circumstances change, you may not feel that way anymore. Then again, you also just plain may not have it, it's true.
JeremyNT 4y ago
> For me, I've joined new teams and crushed it for a few weeks where it was at least expected performance, but then I quickly fall off a cliff for seemingly no reason. Anxiety compounds this, and I can identify why I've sometimes been slow to crawl out, but the initial fall is always difficult to diagnose. I think often this is due to the fact that doing a good job isn't noticed or rewarded. Sometimes the intrinsic motivation of learning a new skill, tool, or environment, is reward enough. If you're new on a project or job, you might think that being a high performer will garner respect, praise, and promotions. However... if you consistently perform well and management can't (or won't) recognize this in some tangible way, that's a surefire way to kill motivation.
strikelaserclaw 4y ago
maybe most office jobs are just boring as hell.

by tr3ntg 4y ago

gavinmckenzie 4y ago

I was diagnosed ADD (or what would now be called inattentive ADHD) in my 30s. But the testing results were not clear, in part because I'd developed a lifetime of coping mechanisms and skills that allow me to behave in non-ADHD ways through force of will. If I look back at my primary school report cards, they are a mixture of both gifted and below-average performance with teacher comments like "Does amazing work when he applies himself". That sudden lack of motivation or drop in performance on tasks that we previously excelled at is also classic ADHD. Anxiety is often a comorbidity, stemming from a feeling of inconsistent failure and lack of control. Though my understanding is that anxiety may be more present in women sufferers of ADHD where the disease manifests differently than in men. All of this to say that you may feel like a DSM definition of ADHD doesn't map onto your experience, but that may be because you're an adult who has a lifetime of adaptation.

UncleOxidant 4y ago
I'll be 60 in a few months and looking back I've tended to think that anxiety has been the main thing that held me back in my career, but I can also relate to the post above where they say they do great in the early days of a job/project, but as time goes on find it more and more difficult to stay engaged. I guess I would think this is caused by anxiety in my case, but now I'm wondering if maybe there isn't more going on. I also got mixed results in school: gifted in subjects I liked, average/below averages performance in subjects I didn't care much about. So maybe there's always been a bit of an issue, but I also tend to think that it's much worse since the advent of smart phones - I think there may be a lot of us who were either not ADHD or just on the edge of being ADHD that have been pushed over the edge by being constantly connected.
- gavinmckenzie 4y ago
  Yes, my understanding is that some people present with anxiety (and/or depression), and that anxiety will become the focus of treatment by their doctor or psychologist, when in fact the anxiety stems from the undiagnosed ADHD. For these people, treating the anxiety alone isn't very effective, compared to getting an ADHD diagnosis and treatment plan that also has a positive impact on the anxiety symptoms. Anecdotally I've seen this scenario play out in my own family.
  - jackvalentine 4y ago
    This whole thread has been a gut punch. My sister and her kid were recently diagnosed with ADHD and combining that fact with what has been described here I need to go see someone myself I think. I have been on the anxiety treatment path before and what you describe rings true with me.

prometheus76 4y ago

A frequent refrain from parents of kids diagnosed with ADHD: "My kid doesn't have problems with attention! He can play a video game for 10 hours straight! I have to tell him to go to the bathroom!" It's actually misnamed and many professionals are trying to shift the name to "Executive Function Disorder". The dysregulation swings both ways: can't focus on uninteresting things, but hyperfocus on interesting things. You might want to do some more research, because the resulting anxiety that you also mentioned is almost always co-morbid with ADHD. --a fellow diagnosed-as-an-adult ADHD guy who didn't know that was my problem until I was in my mid 30s. P.S. another common sign: "Johnny is a delight to have in class, but he's not working to his potential." or "Johnny gets all of his work done quickly and it's stellar work, but then he is a frequent distraction to those around him." or "Class clown who is not working to potential."

yamtaddle 4y ago
> "Johnny gets all of his work done quickly and it's stellar work, but then he is a frequent distraction to those around him." Yep, a variant on bright/"gifted" + ADHD presentation. ADHD as fuck, but smart enough that they get by kinda OK-ish regardless, and maybe even excel... until, perhaps, one day, that's not enough anymore and everything falls apart. The intelligence masks the ADHD enough that it might go undiagnosed and untreated for a long time. Fortunately, spotting these kinds of "twice exceptional" situations is a big focus in modern gifted education, so that's getting a bit better.
sph 4y ago
> It's actually misnamed and many professionals are trying to shift the name to "Executive Function Disorder". The way I describe it in a few words: focus and motivation are outside my control. I have no say in how they operate and what activates them.

yamtaddle 4y ago

I think that one SlateStarCodex post about modern office work tending to make any normal person exhibit strong ADHD symptoms was on to something.

UncleOxidant 4y ago
Not disagreeing, but I guess I'd go further: having immediate access to all the information available on the internet has made many normal people ADHD. Smart phones took it a step further: all that access was now in your pocket. Add in social media and how many people aren't essentially ADHD now?
srcreigh 4y ago
Common trope wrt autism as well. It’s not really accurate. There’s plenty of high performing office workers.

steveklabnik 4y ago

> maybe just 5% apply to me. The clinical descriptions of these sorts of things are evolving; first it was ADD, then it was ADHD, now it's often talked about as three things, ADHD-H (hyperactive), ADHD-I (impulsive), and ADHD-C (combined). Furthermore, sometimes folks have developed coping mechanisms, you may have a handle on behaviors in some context, but if circumstances change, you may not feel that way anymore. Then again, you also just plain may not have it, it's true.

JeremyNT 4y ago

> For me, I've joined new teams and crushed it for a few weeks where it was at least expected performance, but then I quickly fall off a cliff for seemingly no reason. Anxiety compounds this, and I can identify why I've sometimes been slow to crawl out, but the initial fall is always difficult to diagnose. I think often this is due to the fact that doing a good job isn't noticed or rewarded. Sometimes the intrinsic motivation of learning a new skill, tool, or environment, is reward enough. If you're new on a project or job, you might think that being a high performer will garner respect, praise, and promotions. However... if you consistently perform well and management can't (or won't) recognize this in some tangible way, that's a surefire way to kill motivation.

strikelaserclaw 4y ago

maybe most office jobs are just boring as hell.