4 ms·

I had a similar reaction to the article. I actually am opposed to bans on traditional incandescent bulbs but vastly prefer LEDs and have no desire to go back t

I had a similar reaction to the article. I actually am opposed to bans on traditional incandescent bulbs but vastly prefer LEDs and have no desire to go back to them. Using LEDs was a shock to me initially mostly because, as you point out, with traditional household incandescents there wasn't a whole lot of options. So suddenly when I had to pay attention to color profiles and so forth more carefully, I wasn't expecting it. But I don't see that as a bad thing, I really love all the options, and the better precision in labeling color versus power versus brightness. One problem I've noted, that others in the thread are pointing to, is that a lot of shoddy manufacturing has taken advantage of many of the claims of LED technology to push unacceptable products. One of my pet peeves is how I've suddenly seen fixtures with integrated bulbs take over lighting departments, poorly constructed and forcing you to remove the entire fixture rather than just the bulb, when it dies after a year, much earlier than promised. But I guess even there it's just moved me to more selective lighting stores where I can still buy better fixtures separately from the bulbs. I do think there's something to be said about declines or fraud in lightbulb manufacturing quality compared to what is possible, but I see that as a scourge of our age and not something unique to LEDs. I have as much trouble finding a quality lightbulb as I do a quality pair of pants.

PaulDavisThe1st 4y ago
> I actually am opposed to bans on traditional incandescent bulbs AFAIK, there are no simple bans on them [ EDIT: in the USA ]. What exists are energy performance standards, which these bulbs do not meet. If you want, you can say that this is nit-picking, and that of course that's a ban. But when we have energy performance standards for, say, cars, nobody says it is a ban on cars, just a effective end to the production of inefficient ones.
- Spivak 4y ago
  Where the standards are set isn’t arbitrary. If LEDs were exactly as efficient as incandescent bulbs there wouldn’t be a law that bans all lightbulbs. Also there’s no way a law would pass that sets the efficiency standard of incandescent bulbs because the law would do nothing. It’s a ban on incandescent bulbs with the thinnest veneer of generalization.
- teawrecks 4y ago
  The thing is, a simple carbon tax is already designed to handle both of these cases. Burning coal/gas would have a cost proportional to the long term effects it has, and at the end of the day customers just see a price of electricity. If someone wants to pay 10x more for energy to power their lightbulbs, let them. As long as the energy they buy is sustainably sourced, who gives a shit how they use it?
- nerdponx 4y ago
  What happened to CFL bulbs? I was very happy with mine, but they have rapidly disappeared from shelves.
  - tgsovlerkhgsel 4y ago
    They contain mercury - that alone makes them a terrible idea. I suspect they are also less efficient and more expensive to make than LED bulbs, while also having a shorter lifespan and various other drawbacks like not liking quick cycling, not being instant-on, etc.
- ghayes 4y ago
  But if we said cars need to achieve over 1000mpg, then it would be effectively a ban on ICE, right?
  - PaulDavisThe1st 4y ago
    In practice yes. However, someone might also just say "No more ICE" and that is semantically different. Sure, in the real world, no practical difference.
- salawat 4y ago
  ...Some people like me do call those bans.
- ignite 4y ago
  Can't buy incandescents in California anymore. Try on Amazon, it won't sell to you.
vel0city 4y ago
So far I've had better experiences with integrated lighting than individual bulbs. Normally the integrated lighting means they've got more space to try and cram things like power supplies in there and can use a lot of the actual fixture to cool down the electronics. Meanwhile, fixtures designed to not care about the bulbs getting hot roast the LED bulbs and can cause early failure.
- derbOac 4y ago
  Maybe we've just had bad luck. Our integrated lights all failed in less than a year, whereas our bulbs have all lasted a few years at least so far without any failures or apparent changes.
jdcarter 4y ago
I've had very good luck with the integrated fixtures. I have a number of them in my house and only one has failed (of maybe a dozen). This is a lot lower than the failure rate of LED bulbs. They are far brighter than the lights they replaced, and I personally like their lower profile. I also installed a number of the integrated fixtures in my father's house, and the increased brightness helps him quite a bit (he's 80).
gmac 4y ago
On the other hand, the integrated bulb/fixtures in our house at least use separate driver units, and seem to be lasting much better than the average mains-voltage LED bulb (the oldest is 8 years old, used every day and still going strong, touch wood).

PaulDavisThe1st 4y ago

> I actually am opposed to bans on traditional incandescent bulbs AFAIK, there are no simple bans on them [ EDIT: in the USA ]. What exists are energy performance standards, which these bulbs do not meet. If you want, you can say that this is nit-picking, and that of course that's a ban. But when we have energy performance standards for, say, cars, nobody says it is a ban on cars, just a effective end to the production of inefficient ones.

Spivak 4y ago
Where the standards are set isn’t arbitrary. If LEDs were exactly as efficient as incandescent bulbs there wouldn’t be a law that bans all lightbulbs. Also there’s no way a law would pass that sets the efficiency standard of incandescent bulbs because the law would do nothing. It’s a ban on incandescent bulbs with the thinnest veneer of generalization.
teawrecks 4y ago
The thing is, a simple carbon tax is already designed to handle both of these cases. Burning coal/gas would have a cost proportional to the long term effects it has, and at the end of the day customers just see a price of electricity. If someone wants to pay 10x more for energy to power their lightbulbs, let them. As long as the energy they buy is sustainably sourced, who gives a shit how they use it?
nerdponx 4y ago
What happened to CFL bulbs? I was very happy with mine, but they have rapidly disappeared from shelves.
- tgsovlerkhgsel 4y ago
  They contain mercury - that alone makes them a terrible idea. I suspect they are also less efficient and more expensive to make than LED bulbs, while also having a shorter lifespan and various other drawbacks like not liking quick cycling, not being instant-on, etc.
ghayes 4y ago
But if we said cars need to achieve over 1000mpg, then it would be effectively a ban on ICE, right?
- PaulDavisThe1st 4y ago
  In practice yes. However, someone might also just say "No more ICE" and that is semantically different. Sure, in the real world, no practical difference.
salawat 4y ago
...Some people like me do call those bans.
ignite 4y ago
Can't buy incandescents in California anymore. Try on Amazon, it won't sell to you.

vel0city 4y ago

So far I've had better experiences with integrated lighting than individual bulbs. Normally the integrated lighting means they've got more space to try and cram things like power supplies in there and can use a lot of the actual fixture to cool down the electronics. Meanwhile, fixtures designed to not care about the bulbs getting hot roast the LED bulbs and can cause early failure.

derbOac 4y ago
Maybe we've just had bad luck. Our integrated lights all failed in less than a year, whereas our bulbs have all lasted a few years at least so far without any failures or apparent changes.

jdcarter 4y ago

I've had very good luck with the integrated fixtures. I have a number of them in my house and only one has failed (of maybe a dozen). This is a lot lower than the failure rate of LED bulbs. They are far brighter than the lights they replaced, and I personally like their lower profile. I also installed a number of the integrated fixtures in my father's house, and the increased brightness helps him quite a bit (he's 80).

gmac 4y ago

On the other hand, the integrated bulb/fixtures in our house at least use separate driver units, and seem to be lasting much better than the average mains-voltage LED bulb (the oldest is 8 years old, used every day and still going strong, touch wood).