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The Netherlands is also infamous for its tough privacy laws but at the same time has the most phone taps per capita in the world. Your every move in traffic (bo

The Netherlands is also infamous for its tough privacy laws but at the same time has the most phone taps per capita in the world. Your every move in traffic (both by car and public transit) is tracked and tied to your id. The police can see the balance of your bank account. UK is the same with CCTVs on every street. There are practically no privacy laws for the government, they know everything. I guess it’s an European thing…

mschuster91 4y ago
The Netherlands are quickly becoming the Mexico of Europe, a virtual narco state. The amount of organized crime related to or financed by drug empires there is insane.
- Tade0 4y ago
  Can you elaborate? I feel like any information about this country is carefully curated and you don't normally hear anything of this sort.
  - hef19898 4y ago
    Well, it is nowhere near as bad as Mexico, but the Netherlands see their fair share of trafficking, money launderng and assorted organized crime. By virtue of having Europes biggest container port and liberal drug laws.
  - mcv 4y ago
    Netherland has had pretty permissive drug policies for quite some time now, and this seems to have lead to it becoming increasingly important in international drug trade. A couple of years ago there were some serious concerns about this getting out of hand. I have no idea what the current situation really is. It's not happening with the kind of violence that you sometimes hear about from Mexico, though.
    - Gasp0de 4y ago
      Can you explain how the dutch permissive drug policies (which are exclusively related to recreational use) have any influence on importance in international drug trade? Smuggling hard drugs carries a sentence of up to 16 years in prison in the Netherlands and is also frequently enforced.
      - mcv 4y ago
        People create drugs here and then smuggle it abroad. That's pretty much it, I think. We've got several major ports and tons of excellent infrastructure with no border checks to the rest of the EU, so I'm sure that helps. I think there has been a period that the Dutch authorities were a bit naive about this, but they seem to be taking it more seriously now. But I'm no expert and not remotely up to date on what's really going on.
        mschuster91 4y ago
        > People create drugs here and then smuggle it abroad. That's only valid for some chem-drugs (mostly LSD) and marijuana. The real issue is cocaine imported from South America, it's by far the most important drug in the Dutch trade.
    - mschuster91 4y ago
      > Netherland has had pretty permissive drug policies for quite some time now, and this seems to have lead to it becoming increasingly important in international drug trade. That's bordering on propaganda. The problem the Netherlands have is that Europe's biggest seaport is in Rotterdam - that means a lot of ships that come from South America unload their freight there, and there is an extensive network of rail and highway lines that connect it to the rest of Europe. And that combination attracts drug smugglers like a pile of poo attracts flies - and wherever you have large scale drug smugglers, no matter the country's drug policy, which is only relevant for marijuana anyway, you will get absurd amounts of money luring in corruptible officials.
tomxor 4y ago
> UK is the same with CCTVs on every street. There really isn't though, maybe in a built up area, in the middle of a city. But even then it's selective IME, and they are not all part of the same network. It's the same problem you allude to, everything discussed online is quantised into 0 or 1, by humans. The only way to make sense of anything is to remind yourself the truth in what you are reading is invariably more grey and nuanced, writers' unconsciously colour everything to fit their narrative.
kitd 4y ago
> UK is the same with CCTVs on every street. This claim appears continuously on HN, but it really isn't backed by reality. The UK is no more covered by CCTV than most major countries and in fact, per capita, has fewer cameras than the US. https://www.precisesecurity.com/articles/top-10-countries-by-number-of-cctv-cameras https://www.precisesecurity.com/articles/top-10-countries-by...
- osigurdson 4y ago
  Who owns the cameras and what is their purpose?
- PurpleRamen 4y ago
  How is being in the top 5 or even top 3 of the statistics[1] a false claim? Yes, there are some which are worse, just, it's 2 or 4, not 100. [1] https://www.tooltester.com/en/blog/the-worlds-most-surveilled-countries/ https://www.tooltester.com/en/blog/the-worlds-most-surveille...

mschuster91 4y ago

The Netherlands are quickly becoming the Mexico of Europe, a virtual narco state. The amount of organized crime related to or financed by drug empires there is insane.

Tade0 4y ago
Can you elaborate? I feel like any information about this country is carefully curated and you don't normally hear anything of this sort.
- hef19898 4y ago
  Well, it is nowhere near as bad as Mexico, but the Netherlands see their fair share of trafficking, money launderng and assorted organized crime. By virtue of having Europes biggest container port and liberal drug laws.
- mcv 4y ago
  Netherland has had pretty permissive drug policies for quite some time now, and this seems to have lead to it becoming increasingly important in international drug trade. A couple of years ago there were some serious concerns about this getting out of hand. I have no idea what the current situation really is. It's not happening with the kind of violence that you sometimes hear about from Mexico, though.
  - Gasp0de 4y ago
    Can you explain how the dutch permissive drug policies (which are exclusively related to recreational use) have any influence on importance in international drug trade? Smuggling hard drugs carries a sentence of up to 16 years in prison in the Netherlands and is also frequently enforced.
    - mcv 4y ago
      People create drugs here and then smuggle it abroad. That's pretty much it, I think. We've got several major ports and tons of excellent infrastructure with no border checks to the rest of the EU, so I'm sure that helps. I think there has been a period that the Dutch authorities were a bit naive about this, but they seem to be taking it more seriously now. But I'm no expert and not remotely up to date on what's really going on.
      - mschuster91 4y ago
        > People create drugs here and then smuggle it abroad. That's only valid for some chem-drugs (mostly LSD) and marijuana. The real issue is cocaine imported from South America, it's by far the most important drug in the Dutch trade.
  - mschuster91 4y ago
    > Netherland has had pretty permissive drug policies for quite some time now, and this seems to have lead to it becoming increasingly important in international drug trade. That's bordering on propaganda. The problem the Netherlands have is that Europe's biggest seaport is in Rotterdam - that means a lot of ships that come from South America unload their freight there, and there is an extensive network of rail and highway lines that connect it to the rest of Europe. And that combination attracts drug smugglers like a pile of poo attracts flies - and wherever you have large scale drug smugglers, no matter the country's drug policy, which is only relevant for marijuana anyway, you will get absurd amounts of money luring in corruptible officials.

tomxor 4y ago

> UK is the same with CCTVs on every street. There really isn't though, maybe in a built up area, in the middle of a city. But even then it's selective IME, and they are not all part of the same network. It's the same problem you allude to, everything discussed online is quantised into 0 or 1, by humans. The only way to make sense of anything is to remind yourself the truth in what you are reading is invariably more grey and nuanced, writers' unconsciously colour everything to fit their narrative.

kitd 4y ago

> UK is the same with CCTVs on every street. This claim appears continuously on HN, but it really isn't backed by reality. The UK is no more covered by CCTV than most major countries and in fact, per capita, has fewer cameras than the US. https://www.precisesecurity.com/articles/top-10-countries-by-number-of-cctv-cameras https://www.precisesecurity.com/articles/top-10-countries-by...

osigurdson 4y ago
Who owns the cameras and what is their purpose?
PurpleRamen 4y ago
How is being in the top 5 or even top 3 of the statistics[1] a false claim? Yes, there are some which are worse, just, it's 2 or 4, not 100. [1] https://www.tooltester.com/en/blog/the-worlds-most-surveilled-countries/ https://www.tooltester.com/en/blog/the-worlds-most-surveille...