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Those places, let's not forget, deliver care often with a motive of indoctrination in to religion. It really is taking advantage of people who are vulnerable.

Those places, let's not forget, deliver care often with a motive of indoctrination in to religion. It really is taking advantage of people who are vulnerable. Sickening that that's what is on offer in a "developed" nation. That's not even getting to the fact that the leading cause of death in children and teenagers is guns[1] I can't really understand it. [1]: https://eu.statesman.com/story/news/politics/politifact/2022/06/07/fact-check-firearms-leading-cause-death-children/7529783001/ https://eu.statesman.com/story/news/politics/politifact/2022...

giardini 4y ago
sirsinsalot says <">That's not even getting to the fact that the leading cause of death in children and teenagers is guns[1] I can't really understand it. [1]: https://eu.statesman.com/story/news/politics/politifact/2022 https://eu.statesman.com/story/news/politics/politifact/2022..."< No surprise, because the URL contradicts what you say. If omitting certain age ranges is your idea of the truth, please say so up front.
- sirsinsalot 4y ago
  > Rockefeller and Johns Hopkins researchers said that when analyzing the leading causes of death among "children," infants are typically not included because of certain fatal conditions unique to children under a year old. Yes OK, excluding those under a year old. So guns are the leading cause of death in America for those between 1 and 18 years old. Is that OK now? Defensible now? Did that undermine my entire point? Or are you nit picking to detract from the toxic state of the country?
comfypotato 4y ago
This is blatantly false. It’s stated very plainly in the traditions spoken every meeting that the 12-based programs don’t align with any sect denomination or religion. The programs are faith based and widely supported by medical professionals. Plenty of folks have problems with anything being faith based, but unfortunately there aren’t better alternatives for alcoholics and addicts.
- sirsinsalot 4y ago
  [flagged]
  - comfypotato 4y ago
    This is offensive and a blatant violation of the HN rules. 12-step programs are definitively unrelated to any religion and well respected by the professional medical community. Various religious institutions around the world host the meetings altruistically, and it has no influence on the fundamental content and purpose of the 12-step programs.
    - sirsinsalot 4y ago
      God is mentioned in 4 of the AA 12 steps, as an example. Spirituality/Him or a "higher power" referenced in 7 of them. Don't get me started on the others. It may be respected by the US medical community (and we know how uncommercial and trust worthy that is!) elsewhere we go by science backed systems that aren't just relapse setups. The US health care system has some of the worst statistics in developed nations for prescription addiction, post natal death, infant mortality, death during pregnancy and lots more. Forgive me for thinking you are infact, willfully ignorant. That's my opinion and I can hold it. The psudo-psychology nonsense these schemes peddle is nothing short of 1800s "you've got ghosts in your blood" nonsense. I'm an ex addict.
      - comfypotato 4y ago
        Your mention of the dismal US healthcare system is ad hominem and irrelevant. 12-step programs are empirically superior to any alternative; established by comprehensive literature review [1]. Your “science-backed” implication is utterly false. 12-step literature repeatedly, to exhaustion, emphasizes that the spiritual nature of the program is as the person understands it. [1] https://www.cochranelibrary.com/cdsr/doi/10.1002/14651858.CD012880.pub2/full https://www.cochranelibrary.com/cdsr/doi/10.1002/14651858.CD...
        4y ago

giardini 4y ago

sirsinsalot says <">That's not even getting to the fact that the leading cause of death in children and teenagers is guns[1] I can't really understand it. [1]: https://eu.statesman.com/story/news/politics/politifact/2022 https://eu.statesman.com/story/news/politics/politifact/2022..."< No surprise, because the URL contradicts what you say. If omitting certain age ranges is your idea of the truth, please say so up front.

sirsinsalot 4y ago
> Rockefeller and Johns Hopkins researchers said that when analyzing the leading causes of death among "children," infants are typically not included because of certain fatal conditions unique to children under a year old. Yes OK, excluding those under a year old. So guns are the leading cause of death in America for those between 1 and 18 years old. Is that OK now? Defensible now? Did that undermine my entire point? Or are you nit picking to detract from the toxic state of the country?

comfypotato 4y ago

This is blatantly false. It’s stated very plainly in the traditions spoken every meeting that the 12-based programs don’t align with any sect denomination or religion. The programs are faith based and widely supported by medical professionals. Plenty of folks have problems with anything being faith based, but unfortunately there aren’t better alternatives for alcoholics and addicts.

sirsinsalot 4y ago
[flagged]
- comfypotato 4y ago
  This is offensive and a blatant violation of the HN rules. 12-step programs are definitively unrelated to any religion and well respected by the professional medical community. Various religious institutions around the world host the meetings altruistically, and it has no influence on the fundamental content and purpose of the 12-step programs.
  - sirsinsalot 4y ago
    God is mentioned in 4 of the AA 12 steps, as an example. Spirituality/Him or a "higher power" referenced in 7 of them. Don't get me started on the others. It may be respected by the US medical community (and we know how uncommercial and trust worthy that is!) elsewhere we go by science backed systems that aren't just relapse setups. The US health care system has some of the worst statistics in developed nations for prescription addiction, post natal death, infant mortality, death during pregnancy and lots more. Forgive me for thinking you are infact, willfully ignorant. That's my opinion and I can hold it. The psudo-psychology nonsense these schemes peddle is nothing short of 1800s "you've got ghosts in your blood" nonsense. I'm an ex addict.
    - comfypotato 4y ago
      Your mention of the dismal US healthcare system is ad hominem and irrelevant. 12-step programs are empirically superior to any alternative; established by comprehensive literature review [1]. Your “science-backed” implication is utterly false. 12-step literature repeatedly, to exhaustion, emphasizes that the spiritual nature of the program is as the person understands it. [1] https://www.cochranelibrary.com/cdsr/doi/10.1002/14651858.CD012880.pub2/full https://www.cochranelibrary.com/cdsr/doi/10.1002/14651858.CD...
      - 4y ago