5 ms·

Portlander chiming in here. I think it's almost universally accepted now that decriminalization was a stupid idea - and I myself voted for it at the time. I abs

Portlander chiming in here. I think it's almost universally accepted now that decriminalization was a stupid idea - and I myself voted for it at the time. I absolutely would still vote for anything that improved the availability of treatment for addiction, regardless of cost. But I think what we've learned is that every carrot needs a stick. And where there's excess supply, demand will catch up. All of which means, go after supply and possession again until this is under control.

eurasiantiger 4y ago
Or take your head our of your ass, stop enacting half-hearted measures like decriminalization and completely legalize the supply. Your prime issue is corruption, not drug use
- tayo42 4y ago
  i don't get why decriminalization keeps getting pushed by people my cynical take, entrenched people have something to gain by the grey area decriminalization offers.
  - Jochim 4y ago
    My point of view is that locking people up for drug use: * Hasn't reduced drug use * Makes them more likely to continue their drug use * Often leads to the use of harder drugs * Is expensive * Provides funding to cartels * Causes violence Decriminalising, or legalising drug use removes one of the main motivators of gang formation/violence while allowing the state to focus on helping addicts recover and contribute to society. The money spent on enforcement can now be spent on treatment, reducing the need for further funding rather than increasing it.
    - noduerme 4y ago
      There is another option, which is to leave the users alone and go hard after the suppliers.
      - Jochim 4y ago
        That is an option yes. It could reduce the likelihood that addicts end up in a cycle of incarceration and more extreme drug use. However, without a legal supply, I don't believe it would have any effect towards curtailing gang violence or their funding. Personally, I believe the legal supply should be delivered by the state. With a focus on providing monitored, unadulterated doses of the safest alternative and a program aimed at weaning the user off in a sustainable manner.
    - tayo42 4y ago
      i agree, i think the grey area decriminalization is pointless, full legalization is the way to go with safe regulated drugs
  - noduerme 4y ago
    yup. they get to virtue signal and also quicken the death of the addicts. It's pure emasculated Portland passive aggression.
Lacerda69 4y ago
>go after supply and possession again that achieved 0 results in 40+ years of drug warfare with millions dead and the rise of international cartels who are as powerful as nation states. This is not the way, complete legalization is the only way to break the power of cartels.
- LawTalkingGuy 4y ago
  "Legalization" is absolutely worse. Millions of dead sooner and with more collateral damage. You don't have to legalize the drug, simply giving it to existing junkies for free by prescription for a while would allow you to break the cartels. Also, actually do break the cartels like Ecuador is doing, with life sentences or death. The problem with the methods we've used is that we've used them piecemeal and inconsistently. Once the pushers are gone you force the junkies into rehab. Then when there's no epidemic you could actually legalize to prevent a black market from returning.
  - Xylakant 4y ago
    > "Legalization" is absolutely worse. Millions of dead sooner and with more collateral damage. Portugal tried. In 2001, they decriminalized the possession of all drugs for personal use and started treating drug possession as a medical issue instead of a criminal issue. Ever since, Portugals rate of drug addiction and drug death is below the EU average. The policy is considered a success. It reduced harm for the addicted and at the same time, reduced the social costs of drug addiction. The rate of HIV, Hepatitis infection and other side effects of drug addiction dropped significantly. See https://transformdrugs.org/blog/drug-decriminalisation-in-portugal-setting-the-record-straight https://transformdrugs.org/blog/drug-decriminalisation-in-po... Now, they didn’t just legalize drugs, but put the money they saved on the enforcement side into rehab, clean needle and other flanking programs, essentially “giving” it to the addicts. This may seem unpalatable to many, but the outcome is a win for everyone.
    - LawTalkingGuy 4y ago
      Portugal didn't decriminalize anything. They still pick you up against your will and detain you for years while not giving you drugs and forcing you to work. The only semblance of decriminalization is that if you cooperate and don't try to escape they don't give you a criminal record. They use the criminal justice system and the underlying crime of public use and unsafe intoxication to force you into rehab, which is the very definition of criminalized.
pcthrowaway 4y ago
Is it just decriminalized, or is there safe supply in Portland also? Because without a steady, safe supply, people are still going to continue overdosing.
- amanaplanacanal 4y ago
  Yes. We need complete legalization and regulation. People who want opioids need to be able to get a known product, and people who don't want opioids need to know that their product doesn't contain any.
  - noduerme 4y ago
    People who want opiates are people who can't wait to die. [edit] I like your username btw... I actually said that to someone tonight... a man, a plan, a canal; Panama. The couple stared at me until I said "palindrome" and then I'm pretty sure they thought I was crazy.
    - pcthrowaway 4y ago
      You do realize that there are clinical uses for opiates right?
- noduerme 4y ago
  Possession here without intent to sell is now decriminalized for all drugs, and larger amounts are considered misdemeanors. I do think "legalization" would be better - where the supply was safe and regulated. There's also the simple fact that being one of the few places in a country full of addicts to advance decriminalization has made us a destination for people who want to die on the street with a pipe and a needle, so we've had a massive influx from the rest of the country that we are not equipped to handle. But layered over that is the cartel system that runs the human trafficking and the mass theft that perpetuates a lot of the human misery here now. Easier access to drugs sounds humane but it's exactly the opposite.
  - pcthrowaway 4y ago

eurasiantiger 4y ago

Or take your head our of your ass, stop enacting half-hearted measures like decriminalization and completely legalize the supply. Your prime issue is corruption, not drug use

tayo42 4y ago
i don't get why decriminalization keeps getting pushed by people my cynical take, entrenched people have something to gain by the grey area decriminalization offers.
- Jochim 4y ago
  My point of view is that locking people up for drug use: * Hasn't reduced drug use * Makes them more likely to continue their drug use * Often leads to the use of harder drugs * Is expensive * Provides funding to cartels * Causes violence Decriminalising, or legalising drug use removes one of the main motivators of gang formation/violence while allowing the state to focus on helping addicts recover and contribute to society. The money spent on enforcement can now be spent on treatment, reducing the need for further funding rather than increasing it.
  - noduerme 4y ago
    There is another option, which is to leave the users alone and go hard after the suppliers.
    - Jochim 4y ago
      That is an option yes. It could reduce the likelihood that addicts end up in a cycle of incarceration and more extreme drug use. However, without a legal supply, I don't believe it would have any effect towards curtailing gang violence or their funding. Personally, I believe the legal supply should be delivered by the state. With a focus on providing monitored, unadulterated doses of the safest alternative and a program aimed at weaning the user off in a sustainable manner.
  - tayo42 4y ago
    i agree, i think the grey area decriminalization is pointless, full legalization is the way to go with safe regulated drugs
- noduerme 4y ago
  yup. they get to virtue signal and also quicken the death of the addicts. It's pure emasculated Portland passive aggression.

Lacerda69 4y ago

>go after supply and possession again that achieved 0 results in 40+ years of drug warfare with millions dead and the rise of international cartels who are as powerful as nation states. This is not the way, complete legalization is the only way to break the power of cartels.

LawTalkingGuy 4y ago
"Legalization" is absolutely worse. Millions of dead sooner and with more collateral damage. You don't have to legalize the drug, simply giving it to existing junkies for free by prescription for a while would allow you to break the cartels. Also, actually do break the cartels like Ecuador is doing, with life sentences or death. The problem with the methods we've used is that we've used them piecemeal and inconsistently. Once the pushers are gone you force the junkies into rehab. Then when there's no epidemic you could actually legalize to prevent a black market from returning.
- Xylakant 4y ago
  > "Legalization" is absolutely worse. Millions of dead sooner and with more collateral damage. Portugal tried. In 2001, they decriminalized the possession of all drugs for personal use and started treating drug possession as a medical issue instead of a criminal issue. Ever since, Portugals rate of drug addiction and drug death is below the EU average. The policy is considered a success. It reduced harm for the addicted and at the same time, reduced the social costs of drug addiction. The rate of HIV, Hepatitis infection and other side effects of drug addiction dropped significantly. See https://transformdrugs.org/blog/drug-decriminalisation-in-portugal-setting-the-record-straight https://transformdrugs.org/blog/drug-decriminalisation-in-po... Now, they didn’t just legalize drugs, but put the money they saved on the enforcement side into rehab, clean needle and other flanking programs, essentially “giving” it to the addicts. This may seem unpalatable to many, but the outcome is a win for everyone.
  - LawTalkingGuy 4y ago
    Portugal didn't decriminalize anything. They still pick you up against your will and detain you for years while not giving you drugs and forcing you to work. The only semblance of decriminalization is that if you cooperate and don't try to escape they don't give you a criminal record. They use the criminal justice system and the underlying crime of public use and unsafe intoxication to force you into rehab, which is the very definition of criminalized.

pcthrowaway 4y ago

Is it just decriminalized, or is there safe supply in Portland also? Because without a steady, safe supply, people are still going to continue overdosing.

amanaplanacanal 4y ago
Yes. We need complete legalization and regulation. People who want opioids need to be able to get a known product, and people who don't want opioids need to know that their product doesn't contain any.
- noduerme 4y ago
  People who want opiates are people who can't wait to die. [edit] I like your username btw... I actually said that to someone tonight... a man, a plan, a canal; Panama. The couple stared at me until I said "palindrome" and then I'm pretty sure they thought I was crazy.
  - pcthrowaway 4y ago
    You do realize that there are clinical uses for opiates right?
noduerme 4y ago
Possession here without intent to sell is now decriminalized for all drugs, and larger amounts are considered misdemeanors. I do think "legalization" would be better - where the supply was safe and regulated. There's also the simple fact that being one of the few places in a country full of addicts to advance decriminalization has made us a destination for people who want to die on the street with a pipe and a needle, so we've had a massive influx from the rest of the country that we are not equipped to handle. But layered over that is the cartel system that runs the human trafficking and the mass theft that perpetuates a lot of the human misery here now. Easier access to drugs sounds humane but it's exactly the opposite.
- pcthrowaway 4y ago