4 ms·

> You have to fight the drug war to win. Is it perhaps possible that you were placed into a medically-induced coma in 1971? If so, then congratulations on awak

by kibwen 4y ago

> You have to fight the drug war to win. Is it perhaps possible that you were placed into a medically-induced coma in 1971? If so, then congratulations on awakening here in 2023, a lot has changed. However, I regret to inform you that the US has been furiously fighting a war on drugs for 50 years, and the result so far has been unequivocal, ignominious defeat for the US.

rayiner 4y ago
[flagged]
- ok_dad 4y ago
  > This is organized terrorist activity at this point. You need to execute everyone from the low level dealers to the people at the top of the pyramid. This take is so hot that even the Kelvin scale can't hold it! You're suggesting we execute tens or hundreds of thousands of people. Do you think that every one of those people would be able to get a full death penalty case? Are you just suggesting a "Judge Dredd" style USA?
- kibwen 4y ago
  I'm absolutely certain that Elon Musk, Joe Rogan, and Donald Trump will voluntarily report to the gallows for their criminal use of marijuana, MDMA, and cocaine respectively, and their legions of sane and well-adjusted followers will calmly accept this as necessary for the public good. Surely these laws, like all laws, will be applied evenly and without regard for social class.
  - rayiner 4y ago
    Nobody is talking about use. In Singapore users are sent to mandatory medical treatment.
- kccqzy 4y ago
  Execute them? You sound like Philippine President Rodrigo Duterte. Regardless of intention, such an attitude will simply lead to existing biases seeping in, and you'll mostly execute the poor and the non-white.
  - edgyquant 4y ago
    If they’re distributing drugs in large quantities it isn’t bias to call them drug dealers and arrest them. At some point the number of lives lost and generational trauma inflicted by these people has to outweigh our sense of righteousness.
    - hnbad 4y ago
      If you're seeing kids in the gutter with a drug problem, you can either be interested in them becoming kids in the gutter without a drug problem or in them not being in the gutter (and thus being able to avoid the drug problem). Despite what certain people will tell you, drugs don't magically jump at unsuspecting kids to turn them into fiends. Some drugs are extremely chemically addictive but most addictions start as psychological addictions and most of those are either from self-medicating, numbing or for performance enhancement. And this doesn't even get into why people get into the illegal drug trade to begin with. But reality is much more complex and touchy-feely than a good story about good cops shooting bad criminals trying to corrupt our children.
  - rayiner 4y ago
    Countries across Asia have the death penalty for drug trafficking, and it’s working. Vietnam, Bangladesh, Singapore, etc., all aggressively execute drug dealers.
    - Kbelicius 4y ago
      Don't know about others but it seems to not work in Vietnam. While Vietnam has largely decreased the production and use of opium they absolutely failed to do anything to stop the increase in numbers of addicts which has been continually rising since the 90s. Even they are now switching from viewing addiction as a vice to viewing it as a health issue since their policies did nothing to stop people using.
      - rayiner 4y ago
        According to UNODC, Vietnam’s drug overdose rate per million people was 36 in 2016. It was over 230 in the US at the same time. You can treat addiction as a health issue while executing drug dealers. That’s what Singapore does.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- lostlogin 4y ago
  What about some actual liberal policies, like some healthcare, some education and somewhere to live and work? Even if drug laws have been liberalised (which they seem not to have been in much of the US), it's been done without the other necessary components. If you want to try going full Philippines on it, it might pay to look at the results, they don't seem good.
  - rayiner 4y ago
    We have more healthcare than we did 20 years ago, far more spending on education and homelessness, and the drug problem has gotten far worse. The drug laws absolutely have become more liberalized. Marijuana is fully legal in freaking Ohio. Everyone can get weed by telling a doctor they have anxiety across the Deep South. Meanwhile Bangladesh doesn’t have any of those things and has its drug problem under control.
- dang 4y ago
  > You need to execute everyone Please don't. It's over the flamebait line and well into trolling (though I'm sure you didn't mean it that way). https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sort=byDate&type=comment&query=troll%20effects%20by:dang https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sor... https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
pclmulqdq 4y ago
It hasn't really been fighting that hard, in comparison. And they aren't trying to win. The "war on drugs" has been a great excuse to arm up police, increase state power, and erode civil liberties, but they haven't used tactics that are actually effective at reducing the flow of drugs.

by kibwen 4y ago

rayiner 4y ago

[flagged]

ok_dad 4y ago
> This is organized terrorist activity at this point. You need to execute everyone from the low level dealers to the people at the top of the pyramid. This take is so hot that even the Kelvin scale can't hold it! You're suggesting we execute tens or hundreds of thousands of people. Do you think that every one of those people would be able to get a full death penalty case? Are you just suggesting a "Judge Dredd" style USA?
kibwen 4y ago
I'm absolutely certain that Elon Musk, Joe Rogan, and Donald Trump will voluntarily report to the gallows for their criminal use of marijuana, MDMA, and cocaine respectively, and their legions of sane and well-adjusted followers will calmly accept this as necessary for the public good. Surely these laws, like all laws, will be applied evenly and without regard for social class.
- rayiner 4y ago
  Nobody is talking about use. In Singapore users are sent to mandatory medical treatment.
kccqzy 4y ago
Execute them? You sound like Philippine President Rodrigo Duterte. Regardless of intention, such an attitude will simply lead to existing biases seeping in, and you'll mostly execute the poor and the non-white.
- edgyquant 4y ago
  If they’re distributing drugs in large quantities it isn’t bias to call them drug dealers and arrest them. At some point the number of lives lost and generational trauma inflicted by these people has to outweigh our sense of righteousness.
  - hnbad 4y ago
    If you're seeing kids in the gutter with a drug problem, you can either be interested in them becoming kids in the gutter without a drug problem or in them not being in the gutter (and thus being able to avoid the drug problem). Despite what certain people will tell you, drugs don't magically jump at unsuspecting kids to turn them into fiends. Some drugs are extremely chemically addictive but most addictions start as psychological addictions and most of those are either from self-medicating, numbing or for performance enhancement. And this doesn't even get into why people get into the illegal drug trade to begin with. But reality is much more complex and touchy-feely than a good story about good cops shooting bad criminals trying to corrupt our children.
- rayiner 4y ago
  Countries across Asia have the death penalty for drug trafficking, and it’s working. Vietnam, Bangladesh, Singapore, etc., all aggressively execute drug dealers.
  - Kbelicius 4y ago
    Don't know about others but it seems to not work in Vietnam. While Vietnam has largely decreased the production and use of opium they absolutely failed to do anything to stop the increase in numbers of addicts which has been continually rising since the 90s. Even they are now switching from viewing addiction as a vice to viewing it as a health issue since their policies did nothing to stop people using.
    - rayiner 4y ago
      According to UNODC, Vietnam’s drug overdose rate per million people was 36 in 2016. It was over 230 in the US at the same time. You can treat addiction as a health issue while executing drug dealers. That’s what Singapore does.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
lostlogin 4y ago
What about some actual liberal policies, like some healthcare, some education and somewhere to live and work? Even if drug laws have been liberalised (which they seem not to have been in much of the US), it's been done without the other necessary components. If you want to try going full Philippines on it, it might pay to look at the results, they don't seem good.
- rayiner 4y ago
  We have more healthcare than we did 20 years ago, far more spending on education and homelessness, and the drug problem has gotten far worse. The drug laws absolutely have become more liberalized. Marijuana is fully legal in freaking Ohio. Everyone can get weed by telling a doctor they have anxiety across the Deep South. Meanwhile Bangladesh doesn’t have any of those things and has its drug problem under control.
dang 4y ago
> You need to execute everyone Please don't. It's over the flamebait line and well into trolling (though I'm sure you didn't mean it that way). https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sort=byDate&type=comment&query=troll%20effects%20by:dang https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sor... https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

pclmulqdq 4y ago

It hasn't really been fighting that hard, in comparison. And they aren't trying to win. The "war on drugs" has been a great excuse to arm up police, increase state power, and erode civil liberties, but they haven't used tactics that are actually effective at reducing the flow of drugs.