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The article places a lot of blame on the state of Texas: > Directing blame at Mexico is also a way to avoid looking at how Texas fails children. But also incl

The article places a lot of blame on the state of Texas: > Directing blame at Mexico is also a way to avoid looking at how Texas fails children. But also includes anecdotes like: > When Noah awoke from his coma, he was tearful and apologetic. He thought only a few hours had passed; it had been four days. Janel and her husband called treatment centers, but none would take Noah without his consent, and he insisted that he didn’t have a problem. Even so, Janel was hopeful; that summer was one of the best they’d had as a family. Noah was dating a sweet girl, and when he wasn’t with her he seemed happy enough to hang around the house doing TikTok cooking challenges. Then, the first week of school, sixteen days after Janel gave birth to another son, Noah overdosed at his girlfriend’s house. It seems to me that if a child overdoses, but refuses to accept their parents demand to seek treatment, they should be denied privileges - forbidden from spending time with unapproved friends, denied a cell phone, denied allowance, etc. This case (and a few others) seem to be clear cut cases where a parent could have forced compliance, but choose not to - I can't imagine any kid choosing no friends and no cell phone to avoid going to one hour per week of narcotics anonymous.

dopamean 4y ago
You really think "you're grounded" would have helped in this situation?
throwmeouthn 4y ago
In my experience, you cannot force or punish someone out of problematic substance abuse. If it was that easy, we'd already have the solution. These kids are engaging in this behavior for one reason or another and the solution isn't to make them feel worse about it than they already do.
- matthew9219 4y ago
  I was required to attend alcoholics anonymous for three months to continue in university after passing out from intoxication on the quad. Hearing those stories led me to stop experimenting with new drugs and reduce my drinking - I didn't want to become those people. I don't know that such cautionary tales would necessarily have helped this child, but they might have. Let's not forget that attending substance abuse classes is the recommend medical treatment for substance abuse, a medical problem. Doctors wouldn't recommend it if it didn't work sometimes. Imagine if the story was about a broken leg instead of substance abuse and the child similarly said they didn't feel like anything was wrong with their leg, and so it similarly went untreated.
  - throwmeouthn 4y ago
    > I was required to attend alcoholics anonymous for three months to continue in university after passing out from intoxication on the quad. That's quite different from consuming synthetic opioids in elementary / middle school. The former is fairly common at colleges and universities in the west. I'm glad that you were able to dodge that bullet though. > I don't know that such cautionary tales would necessarily have helped this child, but they might have They certainly didn't for me. Adolescents aren't necessarily known for their ability to accurately weigh long term consequences when making decisions. > is the recommend medical treatment for substance abuse, a medical problem AA and NA would like to disagree. Spirituality is the central component of these programs. > Imagine if the story was about a broken leg instead of substance abuse and the child similarly said they didn't feel like anything was wrong with their leg, and so it similarly went untreated A broken leg would be painful enough to spur anyone to seek treatment. Consequences from substance abuse and experimenting with drugs often don't manifest as quickly or as obviously. The bottom line is that putting further shame on a person who is abusing substances, often leads to the further abuse of substances. This was the case with myself, and most people I encountered throughout my trips to AA / NA meetings, rehabs and a halfway house. I didn't start getting better until I began loving myself enough to stop wanting to slowly kill myself. Punishing or shaming a child who is suffering or simply comitting a mistake, is most certainly not the key to ending their suffering or helping them to realize their misstep.
  - tomjen3 4y ago
    That could as easily have backfired, especially because AA is religious and has cultish vibes. A young person who drinks that much might well end up deciding to say fuck this and drink even more. We know there are better and more effective ways (Sinclair method, or even just reading The easy way to stop drinking), but they don't have the cultural heft that AA has.
  - frozenport 4y ago
    Physical dependence on these guys is substantially stronger than alcohol. Takes days to get off, and then constant cravings.
runnerup 4y ago
That was my dad’s strategy and I overdosed three times in high school, 20 years ago. We don’t talk anymore. A large part of the problem was not having my own social group from being grounded for a full year when I wasn’t getting all my homework done.
- AbrahamParangi 4y ago
  Am I to understand you blame your father for overdosing 3 times?
  - runnerup 4y ago
    Largely, yes. Every aspect of my life was heavily controlled and I had very little freedom to choose how I spent any of my time or efforts. I was still a child then, not an adult. I’ve had no problems with addiction since becoming an adult and being in control of my own life. Would you blame yourself if your 3-year old overdosed on Tylenol he grabbed from your medicine cabinet? Would you blame yourself if your 17-year old daughter chose to commit suicide by grabbing a bottle of Tylenol from your medicine cabinet?
    - AbrahamParangi 4y ago
      Were I your father I would blame myself, without a doubt. But that doesn't mean it's not strange to me that you blame him.
  - inconceivable 4y ago
    draconian parenting in a free society leads to incredibly bad outcomes. the parents undermine their own authority and the child doesn't know any better but to rebel. this is why parenting is hard, you need to walk a fine line between 'friend' and 'jailer'. a lot of immigrants have a tough time with this general concept - they have no idea what it's like growing up in the US, none whatsoever. it produces wildly bi-modal outcomes. the ones that end up on the bottom of the curve are left scratching their heads, because they're ego-driven/stubborn or stupid, or both. and plenty of the outwardly successful kids have issues later on. also the reason i'm not going to have kids. i don't think i could handle it, and this isn't the sort of thing you get another shot at.
cryptonector 4y ago
It's not always easy dealing with teenagers you know. That's why you have to treat them like little adults when they're younger, all the way from when they're toddlers really. Children don't usually focus on the long term, so you have to make them see the long term.
germinalphrase 4y ago
“forced compliance” is not a reliable strategy.

dopamean 4y ago

You really think "you're grounded" would have helped in this situation?

throwmeouthn 4y ago

In my experience, you cannot force or punish someone out of problematic substance abuse. If it was that easy, we'd already have the solution. These kids are engaging in this behavior for one reason or another and the solution isn't to make them feel worse about it than they already do.

matthew9219 4y ago
I was required to attend alcoholics anonymous for three months to continue in university after passing out from intoxication on the quad. Hearing those stories led me to stop experimenting with new drugs and reduce my drinking - I didn't want to become those people. I don't know that such cautionary tales would necessarily have helped this child, but they might have. Let's not forget that attending substance abuse classes is the recommend medical treatment for substance abuse, a medical problem. Doctors wouldn't recommend it if it didn't work sometimes. Imagine if the story was about a broken leg instead of substance abuse and the child similarly said they didn't feel like anything was wrong with their leg, and so it similarly went untreated.
- throwmeouthn 4y ago
  > I was required to attend alcoholics anonymous for three months to continue in university after passing out from intoxication on the quad. That's quite different from consuming synthetic opioids in elementary / middle school. The former is fairly common at colleges and universities in the west. I'm glad that you were able to dodge that bullet though. > I don't know that such cautionary tales would necessarily have helped this child, but they might have They certainly didn't for me. Adolescents aren't necessarily known for their ability to accurately weigh long term consequences when making decisions. > is the recommend medical treatment for substance abuse, a medical problem AA and NA would like to disagree. Spirituality is the central component of these programs. > Imagine if the story was about a broken leg instead of substance abuse and the child similarly said they didn't feel like anything was wrong with their leg, and so it similarly went untreated A broken leg would be painful enough to spur anyone to seek treatment. Consequences from substance abuse and experimenting with drugs often don't manifest as quickly or as obviously. The bottom line is that putting further shame on a person who is abusing substances, often leads to the further abuse of substances. This was the case with myself, and most people I encountered throughout my trips to AA / NA meetings, rehabs and a halfway house. I didn't start getting better until I began loving myself enough to stop wanting to slowly kill myself. Punishing or shaming a child who is suffering or simply comitting a mistake, is most certainly not the key to ending their suffering or helping them to realize their misstep.
- tomjen3 4y ago
  That could as easily have backfired, especially because AA is religious and has cultish vibes. A young person who drinks that much might well end up deciding to say fuck this and drink even more. We know there are better and more effective ways (Sinclair method, or even just reading The easy way to stop drinking), but they don't have the cultural heft that AA has.
- frozenport 4y ago
  Physical dependence on these guys is substantially stronger than alcohol. Takes days to get off, and then constant cravings.

runnerup 4y ago

That was my dad’s strategy and I overdosed three times in high school, 20 years ago. We don’t talk anymore. A large part of the problem was not having my own social group from being grounded for a full year when I wasn’t getting all my homework done.

AbrahamParangi 4y ago
Am I to understand you blame your father for overdosing 3 times?
- runnerup 4y ago
  Largely, yes. Every aspect of my life was heavily controlled and I had very little freedom to choose how I spent any of my time or efforts. I was still a child then, not an adult. I’ve had no problems with addiction since becoming an adult and being in control of my own life. Would you blame yourself if your 3-year old overdosed on Tylenol he grabbed from your medicine cabinet? Would you blame yourself if your 17-year old daughter chose to commit suicide by grabbing a bottle of Tylenol from your medicine cabinet?
  - AbrahamParangi 4y ago
    Were I your father I would blame myself, without a doubt. But that doesn't mean it's not strange to me that you blame him.
- inconceivable 4y ago
  draconian parenting in a free society leads to incredibly bad outcomes. the parents undermine their own authority and the child doesn't know any better but to rebel. this is why parenting is hard, you need to walk a fine line between 'friend' and 'jailer'. a lot of immigrants have a tough time with this general concept - they have no idea what it's like growing up in the US, none whatsoever. it produces wildly bi-modal outcomes. the ones that end up on the bottom of the curve are left scratching their heads, because they're ego-driven/stubborn or stupid, or both. and plenty of the outwardly successful kids have issues later on. also the reason i'm not going to have kids. i don't think i could handle it, and this isn't the sort of thing you get another shot at.

cryptonector 4y ago

It's not always easy dealing with teenagers you know. That's why you have to treat them like little adults when they're younger, all the way from when they're toddlers really. Children don't usually focus on the long term, so you have to make them see the long term.

germinalphrase 4y ago

“forced compliance” is not a reliable strategy.