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While I don’t really think a TikTok ban would accomplish much, I’m not terribly concerned of the implications. Huawei/ZTE has been banned from sale and thus im

by prpl 4y ago

While I don’t really think a TikTok ban would accomplish much, I’m not terribly concerned of the implications. Huawei/ZTE has been banned from sale and thus import and I effectively view this as equivalent and likely permissible under law in any case - so it’s probably the case they can just ban it from App stores though not actually block it on the internet - which I would frankly find acceptable (admittedly, it would likely be a death knell) I don’t want to live in a populist/nationalist world, but a little bit of reciprocity, through protectionism, in small doses, isn’t a terrible thing.

inconceivable 4y ago
if tiktok were banned from the store, they could just publish an api and let 3rd party developers create client apps. an app store ban might even have the opposite of the intended effect. which would be pretty much on par as far as sanctions go.
- prpl 4y ago
  So ban any app that uses the API
  - inconceivable 4y ago
    it sounds so easy, doesn't it? they've been trying to ban tiktok for 4 years now.
  - fspeech 4y ago
    How? Apps will be created by US developers. Banning them would be infringing on their first amendment right. In addition no more excuses of TikTok doing something funny on user phones without their knowledge if the access is through third party apps.
- cykros 4y ago
  Given the user base for TikTok in the US, I don't think this is a likely issue, because this is not a group of people clamoring tenaciously to get something; rather, it is a group of people following the path of least resistance. If TikTok is suddenly gone from the app store, you're not going to see swarms of bored teenagers and soccer moms jailbreaking their iPhones to install some third party TikTok workaround; you're going to see them switch to Instagram Reels or YouTube Shorts. TikTok's popularity, while in part fueled by the algorithm, is largely a matter of network effect. Sure, a small portion of the users may "stick it to the man" and go through the trouble of working around the ban, but it won't be anything close to a majority of the 150+ million users they currently have in the US. This is all also somewhat beside the point -- the bill in question here isn't bad because it bans TikTok; it's bad because it hands almost unfettered Internet censorship power to the executive branch and provides stiff penalties for workarounds such as VPN use to circumvent blocks. Which is why it's been called by some the USA PATRIOT Act 2.0.
malshe 4y ago
I think that's a reasonable perspective. Previously I had pointed that the US banning all the social media apps from China because China bans all the American social media apps is the recommended strategy in game theory, specifically in iterated prisoner's dilemma. This is called "Tit for Tat" strategy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tit_for_tat https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tit_for_tat
- chrischen 4y ago
  But China believes in a controlled economy whereas the West believes in a free market. If you apply tit for tat we are basically saying that a free market economy cannot win in a game with controlled economies, and therefore a free market is impractical and idealist in the same sense that communism is…
  - ipaddr 4y ago
    The US has a mixed system. Tariffs exist raising the price of everything in the US. Farming, tech get boatloads of money. Illusion of a free market.
pclmulqdq 4y ago
The modems are covered by import/export controls, which the government has much tighter control over than software, which is effectively speech (at least today). Past attempts to apply those controls to algorithms, cryptography being exhibit A, haven't worked. It is an interesting question if there's a good way to produce a legal vehicle to apply import/export restrictions to software, but this definitely isn't it.
chrischen 4y ago
Didn’t Huawei/ZTE violate some sanctions? Tiktok ban amounts to mostly “we don’t like it” so it is fundamentally different. It also sets a precedent that the US government can arbitrarily ban to shape public opinion in much the same way China currently does.

by prpl 4y ago

inconceivable 4y ago

if tiktok were banned from the store, they could just publish an api and let 3rd party developers create client apps. an app store ban might even have the opposite of the intended effect. which would be pretty much on par as far as sanctions go.

prpl 4y ago
So ban any app that uses the API
- inconceivable 4y ago
  it sounds so easy, doesn't it? they've been trying to ban tiktok for 4 years now.
- fspeech 4y ago
  How? Apps will be created by US developers. Banning them would be infringing on their first amendment right. In addition no more excuses of TikTok doing something funny on user phones without their knowledge if the access is through third party apps.
cykros 4y ago
Given the user base for TikTok in the US, I don't think this is a likely issue, because this is not a group of people clamoring tenaciously to get something; rather, it is a group of people following the path of least resistance. If TikTok is suddenly gone from the app store, you're not going to see swarms of bored teenagers and soccer moms jailbreaking their iPhones to install some third party TikTok workaround; you're going to see them switch to Instagram Reels or YouTube Shorts. TikTok's popularity, while in part fueled by the algorithm, is largely a matter of network effect. Sure, a small portion of the users may "stick it to the man" and go through the trouble of working around the ban, but it won't be anything close to a majority of the 150+ million users they currently have in the US. This is all also somewhat beside the point -- the bill in question here isn't bad because it bans TikTok; it's bad because it hands almost unfettered Internet censorship power to the executive branch and provides stiff penalties for workarounds such as VPN use to circumvent blocks. Which is why it's been called by some the USA PATRIOT Act 2.0.

malshe 4y ago

I think that's a reasonable perspective. Previously I had pointed that the US banning all the social media apps from China because China bans all the American social media apps is the recommended strategy in game theory, specifically in iterated prisoner's dilemma. This is called "Tit for Tat" strategy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tit_for_tat https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tit_for_tat

chrischen 4y ago
But China believes in a controlled economy whereas the West believes in a free market. If you apply tit for tat we are basically saying that a free market economy cannot win in a game with controlled economies, and therefore a free market is impractical and idealist in the same sense that communism is…
- ipaddr 4y ago
  The US has a mixed system. Tariffs exist raising the price of everything in the US. Farming, tech get boatloads of money. Illusion of a free market.

pclmulqdq 4y ago

The modems are covered by import/export controls, which the government has much tighter control over than software, which is effectively speech (at least today). Past attempts to apply those controls to algorithms, cryptography being exhibit A, haven't worked. It is an interesting question if there's a good way to produce a legal vehicle to apply import/export restrictions to software, but this definitely isn't it.

chrischen 4y ago

Didn’t Huawei/ZTE violate some sanctions? Tiktok ban amounts to mostly “we don’t like it” so it is fundamentally different. It also sets a precedent that the US government can arbitrarily ban to shape public opinion in much the same way China currently does.