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I'm sure that a 20 MPH Speed Limit saves more lives than a 25 MPH Speed Limit, just as a 15 or even 5 MPH Speed Limit would save even more lives still. But woul

I'm sure that a 20 MPH Speed Limit saves more lives than a 25 MPH Speed Limit, just as a 15 or even 5 MPH Speed Limit would save even more lives still. But would most people tolerate a very slow drive even if it saves some extra lives?

inamberclad 4y ago
We can do better by designing roads that encourage slow speed, as opposed to our normal, straight grids that allow for unreasonably high speeds on residential roads. Narrowing streets (increased sidewalk and bike lanes) also can accomplish the same.
barbazoo 4y ago
Hopefully there'll be enough enforcement so it won't matter if people tolerate it.
- inamberclad 4y ago
  That's a rather authoritarian take when we can encourage good behavior through design.
  - hulitu 4y ago
    Yes but don't worry. Good design will be fixed. See Windows and MacOS for details.
  - barbazoo 4y ago
    In many neighborhoods I've seen it would just be way to expensive to change urban design to naturally encourage a slower speed so we need some enforcement like we often do for school zones.
comte7092 4y ago
Vehicle speed is exponentially more dangerous. 20 mph is plenty reasonable on city streets.
ashwagary 4y ago
>just as a 15 or even 5 MPH Speed Limit would save even more lives still Parked cars are extremely safe. The IIHS should look into it.
foxyv 4y ago
Usually, you will spend less than a mile on an urban street. There are roads that get you from neighborhood to neighborhood just fine. The difference between traveling a mile at 20 MPH and 25 MPH is 36 seconds. I used to live in towns like this that enforced these limits with rabid Sherif deputies and it is VERY nice. The noise levels are much lower and being around cars doing 20MPH is so much nicer than ones doing 35 in a 25. Especially with separated paths. Reducing speed limits from 25 MPH to 20 MPH reduces fatal collisions by about 25%. It's a kind of a no brainer. Additionally, reducing speed limits to 20 MPH means that cars are not able to legally pass Class A electric bicycles traveling on the same roads that are limited to 20 MPH.
- logicalmonster 4y ago
  > Reducing speed limits from 25 MPH to 20 MPH reduces fatal collisions by about 25%. It's a kind of a no brainer. I'm not necessarily against a 20 MPH speed limit (or even lower) in many neighborhoods, but what exactly makes it a no brainer? The variable you're mentioning is deaths. Are there other variables and unintended consequences to consider? If the only criteria used to evaluate speed limits is a reduction in deaths, then a 15 or 10 or 5 MPH speed limit would be superior and a no brainer by your perspective. (I don't think we'd necessarily disagree about all that much, but just questioning the process of how you're getting there.)
  - foxyv 4y ago
    If it is at all possible, a 10 MPH limit would make a lot of sense. It's about as fast as the average person can run which makes avoiding collisions a lot easier. Reducing road width and adding chicanes would help with this. Ideally though, you would not have cars in urban areas at all. Private cars take up too much space and are way too dangerous in pedestrianized areas. Especially since most cars, are made with limited visibility due to roll over standards. It blew my mind when I bought a 2013 Honda and I could barely see anything compared to my 90' Civic. I'm constantly ducking around A Pillars in parking lots to see to my left.

inamberclad 4y ago

We can do better by designing roads that encourage slow speed, as opposed to our normal, straight grids that allow for unreasonably high speeds on residential roads. Narrowing streets (increased sidewalk and bike lanes) also can accomplish the same.

barbazoo 4y ago

Hopefully there'll be enough enforcement so it won't matter if people tolerate it.

inamberclad 4y ago
That's a rather authoritarian take when we can encourage good behavior through design.
- hulitu 4y ago
  Yes but don't worry. Good design will be fixed. See Windows and MacOS for details.
- barbazoo 4y ago
  In many neighborhoods I've seen it would just be way to expensive to change urban design to naturally encourage a slower speed so we need some enforcement like we often do for school zones.

comte7092 4y ago

Vehicle speed is exponentially more dangerous. 20 mph is plenty reasonable on city streets.

ashwagary 4y ago

>just as a 15 or even 5 MPH Speed Limit would save even more lives still Parked cars are extremely safe. The IIHS should look into it.

foxyv 4y ago

Usually, you will spend less than a mile on an urban street. There are roads that get you from neighborhood to neighborhood just fine. The difference between traveling a mile at 20 MPH and 25 MPH is 36 seconds. I used to live in towns like this that enforced these limits with rabid Sherif deputies and it is VERY nice. The noise levels are much lower and being around cars doing 20MPH is so much nicer than ones doing 35 in a 25. Especially with separated paths. Reducing speed limits from 25 MPH to 20 MPH reduces fatal collisions by about 25%. It's a kind of a no brainer. Additionally, reducing speed limits to 20 MPH means that cars are not able to legally pass Class A electric bicycles traveling on the same roads that are limited to 20 MPH.

logicalmonster 4y ago
> Reducing speed limits from 25 MPH to 20 MPH reduces fatal collisions by about 25%. It's a kind of a no brainer. I'm not necessarily against a 20 MPH speed limit (or even lower) in many neighborhoods, but what exactly makes it a no brainer? The variable you're mentioning is deaths. Are there other variables and unintended consequences to consider? If the only criteria used to evaluate speed limits is a reduction in deaths, then a 15 or 10 or 5 MPH speed limit would be superior and a no brainer by your perspective. (I don't think we'd necessarily disagree about all that much, but just questioning the process of how you're getting there.)
- foxyv 4y ago
  If it is at all possible, a 10 MPH limit would make a lot of sense. It's about as fast as the average person can run which makes avoiding collisions a lot easier. Reducing road width and adding chicanes would help with this. Ideally though, you would not have cars in urban areas at all. Private cars take up too much space and are way too dangerous in pedestrianized areas. Especially since most cars, are made with limited visibility due to roll over standards. It blew my mind when I bought a 2013 Honda and I could barely see anything compared to my 90' Civic. I'm constantly ducking around A Pillars in parking lots to see to my left.