4 ms·

I don’t get how the DEA is able to cause an ADHD medication shortage by limiting supply and yet at the same time pharma companies are allowed to just manufactur

I don’t get how the DEA is able to cause an ADHD medication shortage by limiting supply and yet at the same time pharma companies are allowed to just manufacture as much fentanyl and other opioids as much as they want.

treeman79 4y ago
It’s funny/sad to ask the pro-drug crowd if I can get my prescription medication without going through a doctor. People flip out. Only took me 2 years to get a prescription for a common but off label use for one medication.
- ClumsyPilot 4y ago
  > prescription medication without going through a doctor. What does it mean?
  - sbaiddn 4y ago
    I think the OP is pointing out his observation that the folks who argue for drug decriminalization are also the ones most likely to be offended by the idea that medicinal drugs, like an antibiotic, be obtainable without a prescription.
blacksmith_tb 4y ago
The fentanyl is mostly made in Mexico these days[1], I don't think the pharma companies could compete on price... 1: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-64047688 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-64047688
- robotnikman 4y ago
  More details posted by another user earlier https://www.dea.gov/sites/default/files/2020-03/DEA_GOV_DIR-008-20%20Fentanyl%20Flow%20in%20the%20United%20States_0.pdf https://www.dea.gov/sites/default/files/2020-03/DEA_GOV_DIR-...
loeg 4y ago
The illegal fent isn't coming from legit pharma companies.
- Pulcinella 4y ago
  Well by definition the illegal fentanyl isn’t coming from legal drug companies. But believing it has always been illegal fentanyl seems somewhat ahistorical. It wasn’t that long ago that Purdue Pharma, the Sackler Family, and other pharma companies settled for billions of dollars for their role in the opioid epidemic. It hasn’t always been cartels and China.
  - loeg 4y ago
    It isn't being illegally diverted from legitimate supply, for example. The street fent comes from a wholly criminal supply chain. The prescription opioid "epidemic" re: Purdue et al was exclusively or virtually exclusively non-fentanyl opioids.
    - Pulcinella 4y ago
      Seems odd to me we just smoothly slid from the prescription opioid crisis to non-prescription, illegal fentanyl. I’m not saying it’s some big conspiracy where pharma is secretly selling to cartels or anything. It just seems like a weird coincidence. E.g. did the crack down on prescription opioids lead to a large backlog of unused precursor chemicals and feedstocks that could end up in the criminal supply chain?
      - loeg 4y ago
        The crackdown on pill mills lead to a huge increase in demand for black market opioids, which was initially met by heroin and later fent. I think criminal fent manufacturing just happened to develop in that time period but market forces can’t be ignored.
Clubber 4y ago
Most of the chemicals comes from China and is manufactured in Mexico then comes over the southern border into the US. https://trone.house.gov/2023/01/08/chinas-role-in-illicit-fentanyl-running-rampant-on-us-streets/ https://trone.house.gov/2023/01/08/chinas-role-in-illicit-fe...
- bombas 4y ago
  Sure it’s coming over the border by Americans. Why isn’t this an issue down in Cameron or Hidalgo counties?
  - Clubber 4y ago
    It's controlled by the cartels, the mules who actually bring it over can be anybody; whoever the cartels feel comfortable with.
    - bombas 4y ago
      You are missing the point. Out of all the counties in Texas — why is it that Hays county has the biggest problem. Hays county is just south of Austin, in central texas. Sure it could be cartels, it could also be snowbirds bringing meds from Mexico to people in the north. You and I don’t have conclusive evidence of either.
      - Clubber 4y ago
        >why is it that Hays county has the biggest problem No idea. I'm certain it won't be limited to that county for long. I assume the cartels are selling it to somebody who is then selling it at the schools or at a local hangout that the students go to. >You and I don’t have conclusive evidence of either. Trone said “99 percent of the fentanyl is coming from precursor drugs from China, and then it’s manufactured by two cartels, the Jalisco and Sinaloa Cartels, and they’re the ones that are bringing it across the border,” adding that it’s important to stop it from the source. This is from the government report I linked up above. That's what I was going on. That seems fairly conclusive evidence if you trust the report. As an aside, further down the linked article this is stated: Fentanyl is coming from Mexico, but it is most commonly brought through ports of entry, by U.S. citizens. They don't cite any evidence, so I'm not sure where they came up with that, but it directly contradicts the government report I linked.
anon291 4y ago
Fentanyl is an opioid, most of which is produce by china which is currently trying to play the opium wars in reverse while most westerners pretend there is no precedent to what is going on.

treeman79 4y ago

It’s funny/sad to ask the pro-drug crowd if I can get my prescription medication without going through a doctor. People flip out. Only took me 2 years to get a prescription for a common but off label use for one medication.

ClumsyPilot 4y ago
> prescription medication without going through a doctor. What does it mean?
- sbaiddn 4y ago
  I think the OP is pointing out his observation that the folks who argue for drug decriminalization are also the ones most likely to be offended by the idea that medicinal drugs, like an antibiotic, be obtainable without a prescription.

blacksmith_tb 4y ago

The fentanyl is mostly made in Mexico these days[1], I don't think the pharma companies could compete on price... 1: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-64047688 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-64047688

robotnikman 4y ago
More details posted by another user earlier https://www.dea.gov/sites/default/files/2020-03/DEA_GOV_DIR-008-20%20Fentanyl%20Flow%20in%20the%20United%20States_0.pdf https://www.dea.gov/sites/default/files/2020-03/DEA_GOV_DIR-...

loeg 4y ago

The illegal fent isn't coming from legit pharma companies.

Pulcinella 4y ago
Well by definition the illegal fentanyl isn’t coming from legal drug companies. But believing it has always been illegal fentanyl seems somewhat ahistorical. It wasn’t that long ago that Purdue Pharma, the Sackler Family, and other pharma companies settled for billions of dollars for their role in the opioid epidemic. It hasn’t always been cartels and China.
- loeg 4y ago
  It isn't being illegally diverted from legitimate supply, for example. The street fent comes from a wholly criminal supply chain. The prescription opioid "epidemic" re: Purdue et al was exclusively or virtually exclusively non-fentanyl opioids.
  - Pulcinella 4y ago
    Seems odd to me we just smoothly slid from the prescription opioid crisis to non-prescription, illegal fentanyl. I’m not saying it’s some big conspiracy where pharma is secretly selling to cartels or anything. It just seems like a weird coincidence. E.g. did the crack down on prescription opioids lead to a large backlog of unused precursor chemicals and feedstocks that could end up in the criminal supply chain?
    - loeg 4y ago
      The crackdown on pill mills lead to a huge increase in demand for black market opioids, which was initially met by heroin and later fent. I think criminal fent manufacturing just happened to develop in that time period but market forces can’t be ignored.

Clubber 4y ago

Most of the chemicals comes from China and is manufactured in Mexico then comes over the southern border into the US. https://trone.house.gov/2023/01/08/chinas-role-in-illicit-fentanyl-running-rampant-on-us-streets/ https://trone.house.gov/2023/01/08/chinas-role-in-illicit-fe...

bombas 4y ago
Sure it’s coming over the border by Americans. Why isn’t this an issue down in Cameron or Hidalgo counties?
- Clubber 4y ago
  It's controlled by the cartels, the mules who actually bring it over can be anybody; whoever the cartels feel comfortable with.
  - bombas 4y ago
    You are missing the point. Out of all the counties in Texas — why is it that Hays county has the biggest problem. Hays county is just south of Austin, in central texas. Sure it could be cartels, it could also be snowbirds bringing meds from Mexico to people in the north. You and I don’t have conclusive evidence of either.
    - Clubber 4y ago
      >why is it that Hays county has the biggest problem No idea. I'm certain it won't be limited to that county for long. I assume the cartels are selling it to somebody who is then selling it at the schools or at a local hangout that the students go to. >You and I don’t have conclusive evidence of either. Trone said “99 percent of the fentanyl is coming from precursor drugs from China, and then it’s manufactured by two cartels, the Jalisco and Sinaloa Cartels, and they’re the ones that are bringing it across the border,” adding that it’s important to stop it from the source. This is from the government report I linked up above. That's what I was going on. That seems fairly conclusive evidence if you trust the report. As an aside, further down the linked article this is stated: Fentanyl is coming from Mexico, but it is most commonly brought through ports of entry, by U.S. citizens. They don't cite any evidence, so I'm not sure where they came up with that, but it directly contradicts the government report I linked.

anon291 4y ago

Fentanyl is an opioid, most of which is produce by china which is currently trying to play the opium wars in reverse while most westerners pretend there is no precedent to what is going on.