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Browbeating JS with this derision has/had become almost an article of faith amongst online circles. It's clearly not great behavior but generally it doesnt real

Browbeating JS with this derision has/had become almost an article of faith amongst online circles. It's clearly not great behavior but generally it doesnt really have much impact on day to day. Yet people love making themselves feel better by latching on to criticism. Signaling your greatness & expertness by beating up on others.

ParetoOptimal 4y ago
What if it's not beating up on others, but being very critical of languages because you believe language choice actually does matter?
- xdennis 4y ago
  That's completely fair, but I FEEL (don't know for sure) that many people who criticize JavaScript don't know it very well and don't pick meaningful things to criticize, but things like its rubbish type coercions (which doesn't have a big impact in real life).
- rektide 4y ago
  You should a) pick big impact items to argue your case b) still acknowledge strengths & successes amid your critique. Also if you are facing the world's most popular language & a very successful one people build all sorts of stuff with without complaint, it's a big barrier. I think most language bigots lack a good narrative. They have a language they love, or a language they hate, but they harp upon specific issues. But to I think most coders, choice of language is actually pretty far down the list, especially if you ask them to ignore the ecosystem of packages/tooling & focus on the language itself. Trying to go beyond scoring points & telling a story about life being actually authentically really different on one path or another keeps being harder and harder to se, as we keep marching through the decades & seeing few really really strong distinct clear advantages anywhere, no one really excelling at their claimed bag, in an unreplicateable way that shows it really is the language, not just ecosystem. (rust being one genuine exception)
goto11 4y ago
If you use JavaScript you need to be aware of these pitfalls, otherwise it will bite you. The video just does it in an entertaining way.
kthejoker2 4y ago
This is true for literally everything, wild overextrapolation from a single point of data, itself sometimes of dubious provenance. Your only defense is to ignore it when you see it and avoid it in your own thinking.
- rektide 4y ago
  Agreed that this is a wildly broad social phenomenon. As for what to do, I think socializing a defense has merit. Talking about these dangers, trying to make people smart, critical of criticism, wary of over zeal or conviction. Posting about & sharing & discussing malignent maligning forces, drawing light to radicalization, showing some of the bad impacts this talk has had. Not as a talk itself, but in terms of what a magnet for very much problematic & zealotous negativities. I see the challenge here as not merely personal, but also societal, in how we deal with especially highly critical highly skeptical behaviors, those that write things off. And the excuses, however shallow, they can stand on to reject.

ParetoOptimal 4y ago

What if it's not beating up on others, but being very critical of languages because you believe language choice actually does matter?

xdennis 4y ago
That's completely fair, but I FEEL (don't know for sure) that many people who criticize JavaScript don't know it very well and don't pick meaningful things to criticize, but things like its rubbish type coercions (which doesn't have a big impact in real life).
rektide 4y ago
You should a) pick big impact items to argue your case b) still acknowledge strengths & successes amid your critique. Also if you are facing the world's most popular language & a very successful one people build all sorts of stuff with without complaint, it's a big barrier. I think most language bigots lack a good narrative. They have a language they love, or a language they hate, but they harp upon specific issues. But to I think most coders, choice of language is actually pretty far down the list, especially if you ask them to ignore the ecosystem of packages/tooling & focus on the language itself. Trying to go beyond scoring points & telling a story about life being actually authentically really different on one path or another keeps being harder and harder to se, as we keep marching through the decades & seeing few really really strong distinct clear advantages anywhere, no one really excelling at their claimed bag, in an unreplicateable way that shows it really is the language, not just ecosystem. (rust being one genuine exception)

goto11 4y ago

If you use JavaScript you need to be aware of these pitfalls, otherwise it will bite you. The video just does it in an entertaining way.

kthejoker2 4y ago

This is true for literally everything, wild overextrapolation from a single point of data, itself sometimes of dubious provenance. Your only defense is to ignore it when you see it and avoid it in your own thinking.

rektide 4y ago
Agreed that this is a wildly broad social phenomenon. As for what to do, I think socializing a defense has merit. Talking about these dangers, trying to make people smart, critical of criticism, wary of over zeal or conviction. Posting about & sharing & discussing malignent maligning forces, drawing light to radicalization, showing some of the bad impacts this talk has had. Not as a talk itself, but in terms of what a magnet for very much problematic & zealotous negativities. I see the challenge here as not merely personal, but also societal, in how we deal with especially highly critical highly skeptical behaviors, those that write things off. And the excuses, however shallow, they can stand on to reject.