8 ms·

Citizenship laws are arbitrary. I live in Australia, with a non-married partner, and we have very similar backgrounds, both being born in the same country (not

Citizenship laws are arbitrary. I live in Australia, with a non-married partner, and we have very similar backgrounds, both being born in the same country (not Australia). But she is an Australian citizen, since it turns out that her mother was Australian and emigrated. I could now also become an Australian citizen, by obtaining a partnership visa, but it's a slow and expensive process involving a lot of intrusive paperwork. I'll just live here as a temporary visa holder instead, which I can do indefinitely. I don't lose much besides the right to vote.

outworlder 4y ago
> I'll just live here as a temporary visa holder instead Be glad that your temporary visa doesn't expire. That's... not common in other countries.
- incompatible 4y ago
  Yeah, it's special for historical reasons, the 444 visa. It's temporary in the sense that it would expire if I left Australia, but I could get another one if I came back. The other downside for any non-citizen is getting deported (or being denied reentry) if the government thinks you are undesirable for any reason. Edit: and I just want to make clear that I'm not criticising the Australian government in any way with these comments. Please don't deport me.
  - deznu 4y ago
    To be honest, you're realistically taking a lot of risk. The second the Australian government decided to change/rework how the visa works, you could be in a bit of trouble. I would personally move towards getting something more stable. Multiple citizenships are usually quite nice to have anyway.
    - incompatible 4y ago
      Hopefully if the Australian government changes the system, they'll grandfather it for existing residents. They've done that in the past, and New Zealanders who arrived before around 2002 are treated as permanent residents. I do have an EU citizenship as well, and in fact I'd lose that if I became an Australian citizen.
  - mewse 4y ago
    I have a "Permanent Resident" visa in Australia which expires every five years. Kind of funny that they have a "Temporary Resident" visa which is permanent! :D (the Permanent Resident visa can be renewed online in about fifteen minutes when it expires, they just want you to attest that you still live here)
    - selcuka 4y ago
      > I have a "Permanent Resident" visa in Australia which expires every five years. Kind of funny that they have a "Temporary Resident" visa which is permanent! :D Technically you don't have to renew your permanent residency unless you leave Australia (but then you have to renew your temporary visa, too). Also you can apply to be a citizen after ~4 years of permanent residency while you can't apply if you only have a temporary visa.
plantain 4y ago
I thought getting an Australian partner visa for my German girlfriend was an expensive and arduous process - a few solid weeks putting together a big binder of all our information, but for 'only' 10,000$AUD and a 3 month wait, she's now a Permanent Resident. As I understand, it would not be possible in to do the reverse in Germany or most other European countries without waiting many years and getting married.
- incompatible 4y ago
  That was surprisingly fast, I thought there was some kind of waiting list that was years long. The $10,000 AUD absolutely stops me applying.
  - plantain 4y ago
    The processing time appears to vary roughly linearly with your whiteness, youth and skills. My friend with an Asian wife and two kids has been waiting two years.
- bombolo 4y ago
  In europe, excluding scam countries like malta, you don't have to pay such high fees to get processing.
  - fieryskiff11 4y ago
    [dead]
  - midoridensha 4y ago
    In Japan it's 8000 yen (about USD$60 right now). Weird how the Anglophone countries take advantage of immigrants so much.
    - hulitu 4y ago
      > Weird how the Anglophone countries take advantage of immigrants so much They are more experienced. There are not so many people who want to live in Japan.
notch898a 4y ago
That can be a bit precarious. For instance, a 444 visa can be revoked based on as little as a DV order. If it's anything like the US, david letterman got a DV order against him just for a woman thinking he was sending secret coded messages through the television. http://www.ejfi.org/PDF/Nestler_Letterman_TRO.pdf http://www.ejfi.org/PDF/Nestler_Letterman_TRO.pdf
- incompatible 4y ago
  Absolutely, I think one guy got deported for joining an "outlaw" motorcycle club.
mths 4y ago
> I don't lose much besides the right to vote. I think you mean the obligation to vote. :) Aren't you paying more in taxes and/or losing out on social benefits if ever desired? Say you want to buy a house, larger stamp duty? Have kids, less/no subsidy? Something something medicare benefits?
- incompatible 4y ago
  I can't get certain benefits like for unemployment, but can sign up to Medicare (and the age pension, in future.) Well, I can always turn to crime if I run out of money, right? Resident non-citizens can buy houses, but pay an extra tax, but there's an exemption for New Zealanders. The Australian citizen partner can help with the stamp duty reduction for first-home buyers.
senectus1 4y ago
>I don't lose much besides the right to vote. The Requirement to vote :-P
FpUser 4y ago
>"I don't lose much besides the right to vote." The guy picked newspaper from the outside stand in front of store and walked away thinking it was usual free stuff. Well it was not. Few minutes later he was arrested, ended up being convicted and eventually deported as he was not citizen.

outworlder 4y ago

> I'll just live here as a temporary visa holder instead Be glad that your temporary visa doesn't expire. That's... not common in other countries.

incompatible 4y ago
Yeah, it's special for historical reasons, the 444 visa. It's temporary in the sense that it would expire if I left Australia, but I could get another one if I came back. The other downside for any non-citizen is getting deported (or being denied reentry) if the government thinks you are undesirable for any reason. Edit: and I just want to make clear that I'm not criticising the Australian government in any way with these comments. Please don't deport me.
- deznu 4y ago
  To be honest, you're realistically taking a lot of risk. The second the Australian government decided to change/rework how the visa works, you could be in a bit of trouble. I would personally move towards getting something more stable. Multiple citizenships are usually quite nice to have anyway.
  - incompatible 4y ago
    Hopefully if the Australian government changes the system, they'll grandfather it for existing residents. They've done that in the past, and New Zealanders who arrived before around 2002 are treated as permanent residents. I do have an EU citizenship as well, and in fact I'd lose that if I became an Australian citizen.
- mewse 4y ago
  I have a "Permanent Resident" visa in Australia which expires every five years. Kind of funny that they have a "Temporary Resident" visa which is permanent! :D (the Permanent Resident visa can be renewed online in about fifteen minutes when it expires, they just want you to attest that you still live here)
  - selcuka 4y ago
    > I have a "Permanent Resident" visa in Australia which expires every five years. Kind of funny that they have a "Temporary Resident" visa which is permanent! :D Technically you don't have to renew your permanent residency unless you leave Australia (but then you have to renew your temporary visa, too). Also you can apply to be a citizen after ~4 years of permanent residency while you can't apply if you only have a temporary visa.

plantain 4y ago

I thought getting an Australian partner visa for my German girlfriend was an expensive and arduous process - a few solid weeks putting together a big binder of all our information, but for 'only' 10,000$AUD and a 3 month wait, she's now a Permanent Resident. As I understand, it would not be possible in to do the reverse in Germany or most other European countries without waiting many years and getting married.

incompatible 4y ago
That was surprisingly fast, I thought there was some kind of waiting list that was years long. The $10,000 AUD absolutely stops me applying.
- plantain 4y ago
  The processing time appears to vary roughly linearly with your whiteness, youth and skills. My friend with an Asian wife and two kids has been waiting two years.
bombolo 4y ago
In europe, excluding scam countries like malta, you don't have to pay such high fees to get processing.
- fieryskiff11 4y ago
  [dead]
- midoridensha 4y ago
  In Japan it's 8000 yen (about USD$60 right now). Weird how the Anglophone countries take advantage of immigrants so much.
  - hulitu 4y ago
    > Weird how the Anglophone countries take advantage of immigrants so much They are more experienced. There are not so many people who want to live in Japan.

notch898a 4y ago

That can be a bit precarious. For instance, a 444 visa can be revoked based on as little as a DV order. If it's anything like the US, david letterman got a DV order against him just for a woman thinking he was sending secret coded messages through the television. http://www.ejfi.org/PDF/Nestler_Letterman_TRO.pdf http://www.ejfi.org/PDF/Nestler_Letterman_TRO.pdf

incompatible 4y ago
Absolutely, I think one guy got deported for joining an "outlaw" motorcycle club.

mths 4y ago

> I don't lose much besides the right to vote. I think you mean the obligation to vote. :) Aren't you paying more in taxes and/or losing out on social benefits if ever desired? Say you want to buy a house, larger stamp duty? Have kids, less/no subsidy? Something something medicare benefits?

incompatible 4y ago
I can't get certain benefits like for unemployment, but can sign up to Medicare (and the age pension, in future.) Well, I can always turn to crime if I run out of money, right? Resident non-citizens can buy houses, but pay an extra tax, but there's an exemption for New Zealanders. The Australian citizen partner can help with the stamp duty reduction for first-home buyers.

senectus1 4y ago

>I don't lose much besides the right to vote. The Requirement to vote :-P

FpUser 4y ago

>"I don't lose much besides the right to vote." The guy picked newspaper from the outside stand in front of store and walked away thinking it was usual free stuff. Well it was not. Few minutes later he was arrested, ended up being convicted and eventually deported as he was not citizen.