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There is no meaningful genetic variance in height between cultures, so there’s no need to control for it. Or are you suggesting that non-genetic cultural facto

by Zetice 4y ago

There is no meaningful genetic variance in height between cultures, so there’s no need to control for it. Or are you suggesting that non-genetic cultural factors could be at play here too? Possibly!

emmelaich 4y ago
Do you mean within a culture? And what do you mean by culture?
- Zetice 4y ago
  Anthropologists define culture as a set of learned behaviors, beliefs, values, customs, and artifacts that are shared by members of a particular group or society.
strken 4y ago
Without attempting to control for it you're not going to know, right? As an example of one isolated mechanism that might make a difference, fish is probably one of the only foods nutritionists almost all agree is healthy, is known to prevent stunting of growth in children, and fish consumption is higher in some cultures than others.
- Zetice 4y ago
  We've already more or less entirely ruled out genetics as a factor in cultural diversity, so there's no need to, again, try to control for it here.
  - strken 4y ago
    I have no idea what you're trying to say and don't think genetics as a factor in cultural diversity has anything to do with the point in question. If eating fish makes you taller, and there's a country called Hypotheticalia with a strong north/south cultural divide where North Hypotheticals eat more fish than South Hypotheticals despite being genetically identical, then controlling for culture may change your results. If whatever you wanted to say agrees with this, I agree with it; if it disagrees, I disagree with it.
    - Zetice 4y ago
      Yeah, we agree then. I just wanted to make it clear that the racial arguments in explanation of this study aren't going to hold water.
at-w 4y ago
>between cultures I don't see cultures mentioned anywhere in the article or the comment you replied to. If mean that there are no differences in the genes that determine height across populations, that is incorrect. For example, the average male height in Pygmy populations is 5 feet, or about 7 inches lower than Cameroon's Bantu populations who live alongside Pygmies. We know there are genetic differences between Pygmy and Bantu populations that are specifically associated with height, and that average Pygmy height increases along with the percentage of Bantu ancestry (https://journals.plos.org/plosgenetics/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pgen.1002641 https://journals.plos.org/plosgenetics/article/info%3Adoi%2F...). Similarly, differences in height across European populations have been demonstrated to be partly due to differences in the hundreds of genes associated with height (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3480734/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3480734/).
- Zetice 4y ago
  Fair, Pygmy genetics are minorly distinct. No other group is, and unless you're suggesting the urban Pygmy population exploded to account for these changes, it's irrelevant.
  - at-w 4y ago
    > Pygmy genetics are minorly distinct. No other group is One group in all of humanity happened to have measurable differences in genes affecting height? How does that explain the many other distinct "Pygmy" groups entirely separate from those in West Africa, such as those in the Philippines, who have genetic differences in growth hormones that cause them to be shorter (https://doi.org/10.1515/JPEM.2002.15.3.269 https://doi.org/10.1515/JPEM.2002.15.3.269)? "Pygmy" simply refers to one of these many groups, they are genetically and geographically distinct. Pygmy groups show how absurd the claim that there are no differences in height is, but the same kind of variation has been shown within European groups on a smaller scale (consistent with the greater genetic diversity in Africa than Europe). We know that similar differences in genes that influence height exist, to a less extreme degree, across all populations. For example, males in both the Tutsi and Dinka ethnic groups average nearly 6' tall, despite living in areas where malnutrition is/was widespread and alongside other groups that are much shorter on average. I'm genuinely curious where you got the idea that there are no genetic differences affecting height between ethnic groups/countries. Researchers have identified genetic markers responsible for the majority of variation in human height among Europeans (https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/588020v1 https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/588020v1), and shown that those markers vary significantly across European groups just as they do in Africa (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3480734/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3480734/).

by Zetice 4y ago

emmelaich 4y ago

Do you mean within a culture? And what do you mean by culture?

Zetice 4y ago
Anthropologists define culture as a set of learned behaviors, beliefs, values, customs, and artifacts that are shared by members of a particular group or society.

strken 4y ago

Without attempting to control for it you're not going to know, right? As an example of one isolated mechanism that might make a difference, fish is probably one of the only foods nutritionists almost all agree is healthy, is known to prevent stunting of growth in children, and fish consumption is higher in some cultures than others.

Zetice 4y ago
We've already more or less entirely ruled out genetics as a factor in cultural diversity, so there's no need to, again, try to control for it here.
- strken 4y ago
  I have no idea what you're trying to say and don't think genetics as a factor in cultural diversity has anything to do with the point in question. If eating fish makes you taller, and there's a country called Hypotheticalia with a strong north/south cultural divide where North Hypotheticals eat more fish than South Hypotheticals despite being genetically identical, then controlling for culture may change your results. If whatever you wanted to say agrees with this, I agree with it; if it disagrees, I disagree with it.
  - Zetice 4y ago
    Yeah, we agree then. I just wanted to make it clear that the racial arguments in explanation of this study aren't going to hold water.

at-w 4y ago

>between cultures I don't see cultures mentioned anywhere in the article or the comment you replied to. If mean that there are no differences in the genes that determine height across populations, that is incorrect. For example, the average male height in Pygmy populations is 5 feet, or about 7 inches lower than Cameroon's Bantu populations who live alongside Pygmies. We know there are genetic differences between Pygmy and Bantu populations that are specifically associated with height, and that average Pygmy height increases along with the percentage of Bantu ancestry (https://journals.plos.org/plosgenetics/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pgen.1002641 https://journals.plos.org/plosgenetics/article/info%3Adoi%2F...). Similarly, differences in height across European populations have been demonstrated to be partly due to differences in the hundreds of genes associated with height (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3480734/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3480734/).

Zetice 4y ago
Fair, Pygmy genetics are minorly distinct. No other group is, and unless you're suggesting the urban Pygmy population exploded to account for these changes, it's irrelevant.
- at-w 4y ago
  > Pygmy genetics are minorly distinct. No other group is One group in all of humanity happened to have measurable differences in genes affecting height? How does that explain the many other distinct "Pygmy" groups entirely separate from those in West Africa, such as those in the Philippines, who have genetic differences in growth hormones that cause them to be shorter (https://doi.org/10.1515/JPEM.2002.15.3.269 https://doi.org/10.1515/JPEM.2002.15.3.269)? "Pygmy" simply refers to one of these many groups, they are genetically and geographically distinct. Pygmy groups show how absurd the claim that there are no differences in height is, but the same kind of variation has been shown within European groups on a smaller scale (consistent with the greater genetic diversity in Africa than Europe). We know that similar differences in genes that influence height exist, to a less extreme degree, across all populations. For example, males in both the Tutsi and Dinka ethnic groups average nearly 6' tall, despite living in areas where malnutrition is/was widespread and alongside other groups that are much shorter on average. I'm genuinely curious where you got the idea that there are no genetic differences affecting height between ethnic groups/countries. Researchers have identified genetic markers responsible for the majority of variation in human height among Europeans (https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/588020v1 https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/588020v1), and shown that those markers vary significantly across European groups just as they do in Africa (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3480734/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3480734/).