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"Incompetent" is very broad. I think you're going to let go of anyone who is somehow totally incompetent so I'm not sure that's a real case. I think most of th

"Incompetent" is very broad. I think you're going to let go of anyone who is somehow totally incompetent so I'm not sure that's a real case. I think most of the time though, someone who appears incompetent is suffering from one of three things. 1) They are being tasked with things that simply don't align with their talents. For example, there are certain tasks which are just very mathy. You can pass college calculus and still suck pretty bad at lots of math. This is a case where someone else should be doing this task. 2) They are being tasked with problems which are out of their present ability to breakdown and solve. Essentially, they haven't learned to be an engineer. 3) They have a skills gap (as mentioned in the article they need to get better with a specific tool). I think the thing that happens by far the most with people who get managed out is that they are a #2 but people try to help them as if they are a #3. I have been in a situation many times where I have seen other leads giving tasks to their junior engineers and then getting frustrated when their subordinates don't make progress. They try to help by pointing them to tutorials, docs, etc. but what these people often need is someone to sit with them for a significant amount of time and demonstrate how one breaks a problem down, builds small pieces that demonstrate functionality and then put those pieces together into a solution. This is expensive because it takes time. And it takes time from some of the most skilled people on the team. As often as I have seen people fail a team, I've seen teams fail people. A Pluralsight subscription is not a substitute for mentorship. Talking about networking and career planning is not mentorship (yes I believe it is important too).

spawarotti 4y ago
> but what these people often need is someone to sit with them for a significant amount of time and demonstrate how one breaks a problem down, builds small pieces that demonstrate functionality and then put those pieces together into a solution. And what if this is done repeatedly for the junior engineer, and yet any initiative they show after that is still negligible?
- tom_ 4y ago
  Then they are one of the exceptions?
JohnBooty 4y ago
I think an increasingly common example of your "1)" scenario is when backend-heavy engineers are given frontend-heavy workloads, or vice-versa. I know I've struggled in such a situation. I say it will become increasingly common because I believe the gap between frontend and backend is growing, as frontend and backend stack choices become more complex and diverse. The breadth of knowledge required to be a true "full stack" engineer is a multiple of what it used to be. A lot of folks calling themselves full stack engineers are kidding themselves, IMHO. I don't really see folks excelling at both aspects. Usually they excel at one half (at best) and are just slapping together sloppy crap on the other end.
khazhoux 4y ago
> I think you're going to let go of anyone who is somehow totally incompetent so I'm not sure that's a real case. It's so hard even in that case, though. And I don't just mean hard from an HR/legal standpoint (which it is). Letting someone go (and the performance improvement plan that leads to that, and the Serious Concerns conversation before that) are all exhausting, emotionally draining, and difficult from the manager's side. You like this person. This person is trying. You want to help this person. You don't want them to have to go home and tell their spouse they were fired, if there's anything you can do to get them on track. And so there's a long road ahead before making the cut. Maybe it's easier if someone is truly 100% incompetent, but usually there's something there that will make the manager want to believe in them.

spawarotti 4y ago

> but what these people often need is someone to sit with them for a significant amount of time and demonstrate how one breaks a problem down, builds small pieces that demonstrate functionality and then put those pieces together into a solution. And what if this is done repeatedly for the junior engineer, and yet any initiative they show after that is still negligible?

tom_ 4y ago
Then they are one of the exceptions?

JohnBooty 4y ago

I think an increasingly common example of your "1)" scenario is when backend-heavy engineers are given frontend-heavy workloads, or vice-versa. I know I've struggled in such a situation. I say it will become increasingly common because I believe the gap between frontend and backend is growing, as frontend and backend stack choices become more complex and diverse. The breadth of knowledge required to be a true "full stack" engineer is a multiple of what it used to be. A lot of folks calling themselves full stack engineers are kidding themselves, IMHO. I don't really see folks excelling at both aspects. Usually they excel at one half (at best) and are just slapping together sloppy crap on the other end.

khazhoux 4y ago

> I think you're going to let go of anyone who is somehow totally incompetent so I'm not sure that's a real case. It's so hard even in that case, though. And I don't just mean hard from an HR/legal standpoint (which it is). Letting someone go (and the performance improvement plan that leads to that, and the Serious Concerns conversation before that) are all exhausting, emotionally draining, and difficult from the manager's side. You like this person. This person is trying. You want to help this person. You don't want them to have to go home and tell their spouse they were fired, if there's anything you can do to get them on track. And so there's a long road ahead before making the cut. Maybe it's easier if someone is truly 100% incompetent, but usually there's something there that will make the manager want to believe in them.