4 ms·

You again vastly underestimate the amount of work that goes into the intellectual and artistic components of VFX, and vastly underestimate what the artistic com

You again vastly underestimate the amount of work that goes into the intellectual and artistic components of VFX, and vastly underestimate what the artistic components require of someone. Those movies are nearly entirely VFX. 50% of the budget in some cases. That's not because the tools are expensive or the pieces just take a long time to build-- it's repeatedly iterating and putting things in context to figure out what should be there. No matter how fast those iterations get, that's just not something machines will be able to do themselves. Ever. No machine will be able to say "this is the most emotionally impactful texture and drape for that superhero's cape in this scene." They might be able to give you a thousand different versions of it, but someone still has to look at all of that and respond to it. Replicants from Blade Runner couldn't do that and to say we're a ways off from that is a pretty huge understatement.

satvikpendem 4y ago
> No matter how fast those iterations get, that's just not something machines will be able to do themselves. Ever. Why do people say stuff like this? How do you know what machines will ever be able to do, can you tell the future? And more fundamentally, do you believe humans are more than a biological machine? If you don't (and thus aren't a physicalist) then sure, you can make statements like this because you'd believe that humans have something fundamentally different that no machine can replicate, but if you do think so, you'd believe that anything humans can do, machines will eventually be able to do, even if it takes a long time.
- CyberDildonics 4y ago
  Now you're moving the goal posts from automatic plausible image generation to full on general AI and saying 'some day' it could happen. This is not the same discussion.
  - satvikpendem 4y ago
    It doesn't really have to be general AI to iterate on the same loop as humans, as the parent mentions. Using words like "(n)ever" should be restricted to things that we've proven to be unable to be done, like the laws of mathematics or physics, not stuff that we already see is feasible today (ie, human and animal minds and physical movement). It's not a question of "some day," it's more a question of which philosophical belief one holds to make them think it could or couldn't happen. Like I mentioned, some people simply believe humans are somehow better than machines or animals, and based on what we've seen so far, that's simply not the case.
    - CyberDildonics 4y ago
      I'm not even sure what you are actually trying to say at this point. At first you seemed to be insinuating that AI will "upend vfx" because a lot fof movies are "like transformers" and now you're saying "never is a long time and what if AI becomes like a human"
      - satvikpendem 4y ago
        Sorry, I was mainly responding to the criticism that many non-technical people say, "AI will never come for our jobs," discounting the rate of change that technology generally experiences over and above other types of human endeavors. I'm just frustrated by people thinking they and their job are somehow special and laying back while real change happens all around them. My points are a bit disjointed, I could have been clearer, sorry about that.
        CyberDildonics 4y ago
        I'm just frustrated by people thinking they and their job are somehow special and laying back while real change happens all around them. What makes you think industrial light and magic or anyone in the vfx thinks this way? It has been one of the most competitive and rapidly changing industries in the last 40 years.
        DrewADesign 4y ago
        I'd guess it's an abject lack of knowledge about the field, and a deep-seated insecurity that prevents him from feeling good about himself if he doesn't feel like he's superior to someone else.
        DrewADesign 4y ago
        Your points were perfectly portrayed. The problem was that they are extrapolations based on assumptions born from idle musings and suppositions. AI is already used heavily in VFX and it's use is expanding. Tech artists in VFX, games , etc are not non-technical people. Much, if not most of any given job involves coding in Python, C++, or a handful of proprietary languages. I was a full-time developer for ten years and I know one with a masters in computer science in addition to an MFA. If you knew things like that, or anything about the way professional VFX was done, the logistics of how movies get made, what intellectually and creatively goes into creating movie scenes, the involved piplines and their purposes, both technical and artistic, or any of the other critical bits of knowledge needed to talk about how this stuff actually works, then your comments would have been a lot better. If that wasn't obnoxious enough by itself, it manifests in the urge rub your perceived insecurity of people's careers in their faces. No matter how insanely ill-informed your statements are, that's just a messed up thing to do. It's not normal. Man. Get some help.

satvikpendem 4y ago

> No matter how fast those iterations get, that's just not something machines will be able to do themselves. Ever. Why do people say stuff like this? How do you know what machines will ever be able to do, can you tell the future? And more fundamentally, do you believe humans are more than a biological machine? If you don't (and thus aren't a physicalist) then sure, you can make statements like this because you'd believe that humans have something fundamentally different that no machine can replicate, but if you do think so, you'd believe that anything humans can do, machines will eventually be able to do, even if it takes a long time.

CyberDildonics 4y ago
Now you're moving the goal posts from automatic plausible image generation to full on general AI and saying 'some day' it could happen. This is not the same discussion.
- satvikpendem 4y ago
  It doesn't really have to be general AI to iterate on the same loop as humans, as the parent mentions. Using words like "(n)ever" should be restricted to things that we've proven to be unable to be done, like the laws of mathematics or physics, not stuff that we already see is feasible today (ie, human and animal minds and physical movement). It's not a question of "some day," it's more a question of which philosophical belief one holds to make them think it could or couldn't happen. Like I mentioned, some people simply believe humans are somehow better than machines or animals, and based on what we've seen so far, that's simply not the case.
  - CyberDildonics 4y ago
    I'm not even sure what you are actually trying to say at this point. At first you seemed to be insinuating that AI will "upend vfx" because a lot fof movies are "like transformers" and now you're saying "never is a long time and what if AI becomes like a human"
    - satvikpendem 4y ago
      Sorry, I was mainly responding to the criticism that many non-technical people say, "AI will never come for our jobs," discounting the rate of change that technology generally experiences over and above other types of human endeavors. I'm just frustrated by people thinking they and their job are somehow special and laying back while real change happens all around them. My points are a bit disjointed, I could have been clearer, sorry about that.
      - CyberDildonics 4y ago
        I'm just frustrated by people thinking they and their job are somehow special and laying back while real change happens all around them. What makes you think industrial light and magic or anyone in the vfx thinks this way? It has been one of the most competitive and rapidly changing industries in the last 40 years.
        DrewADesign 4y ago
        I'd guess it's an abject lack of knowledge about the field, and a deep-seated insecurity that prevents him from feeling good about himself if he doesn't feel like he's superior to someone else.
      - DrewADesign 4y ago
        Your points were perfectly portrayed. The problem was that they are extrapolations based on assumptions born from idle musings and suppositions. AI is already used heavily in VFX and it's use is expanding. Tech artists in VFX, games , etc are not non-technical people. Much, if not most of any given job involves coding in Python, C++, or a handful of proprietary languages. I was a full-time developer for ten years and I know one with a masters in computer science in addition to an MFA. If you knew things like that, or anything about the way professional VFX was done, the logistics of how movies get made, what intellectually and creatively goes into creating movie scenes, the involved piplines and their purposes, both technical and artistic, or any of the other critical bits of knowledge needed to talk about how this stuff actually works, then your comments would have been a lot better. If that wasn't obnoxious enough by itself, it manifests in the urge rub your perceived insecurity of people's careers in their faces. No matter how insanely ill-informed your statements are, that's just a messed up thing to do. It's not normal. Man. Get some help.