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> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anecdote https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anecdote Your experience is not everyones experience. For example, the country you descr

> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anecdote https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anecdote Your experience is not everyones experience. For example, the country you describe has 0% resemblance to the one I know. Why should your experience matter more than mine? Are you actually proposing that your experiences are in some way typical ?

withinboredom 4y ago
Every American expat I know has a similar-ish process where they have to get over the fear/anxiety from living in the US. It’s a proper dinner topic. So yes, I assume it’s typical. Perhaps not 1:1, but there are always similar elements. Edit to add: everyone says they never noticed it while living there. They only noticed it after the first few months/years when it was no longer present.
- kelipso 4y ago
  I have experienced this every time I go out if the country for two weeks and come back. Main thing I notice is the fear I sense in people whenever cops are nearby, and definitely the sense of this security state hovering over everyone. The feeling of personal freedom I have feels like it gets wrenched away whenever I enter the US. The talk of freedom in America is basically cope for having no personal freedom. Wherever you go there's some security fuck hovering around watching and waiting for you to fuck up.
  - throwaway29812 4y ago
    > Main thing I notice is the fear I sense in people whenever cops are nearby, and definitely the sense of this security state hovering over everyone. As someone that has lived in a police state before, I can't tell you that your feelings in the US aren't valid. They are yours alone. But perhaps travel somewhere were actual security forces search you randomly, harass you for no reason, etc. Experiences I have never had in the US, not once.
    - kelipso 4y ago
      You lived in a shithole, so what? 80% of a shithole is still a shithole.
      - throwaway29812 4y ago
        If you are going to shorthand entire countries as "shitholes" you should do so up front, so I don't waste my time responding to you.
        kelipso 4y ago
        I don't need to hear some bullshit about how hard you've had it in some random country, could not give a shit. At least we are not in Nazi Germany lol is not something I'll care about.
        throwaway29812 4y ago
        It's called perspective. If you don't have it, fine. But I wouldn't loudly brag about how small your world is.
        kelipso 4y ago
        I don't care about the "perspective" of some shithole country, just like I don't care about the perspective of some caveman complaining about how Ugg was mean to him or whatever.
        throwaway29812 4y ago
        If you are going to say something like this: > Main thing I notice is the fear I sense in people whenever cops are nearby, and definitely the sense of this security state hovering over everyone You should know what that feels like, when it actually occurs. Similarly when someone rushes to declare their country has become "Nazi Germany", they ought to read a history book or two.
- quacked 4y ago
  I don't think that other countries have had their social fabric broken down quite as far as Americans have. A big part of American fear is knowing that nearly every single person you interact with that isn't a friend of yours doesn't really consider you their "people". No matter what ethnicity or social class you come from, if you leave the house you're going to spend a lot of time around people that don't feel any particular loyalty to you, and you end up always watching your back. Can't trust the cops, can't trust the poor people, can't trust the rich people, don't know your neighbors that well, just keep your eyes on your phone. (This isn't just a skin color thing, even white people in America have such diverse in-cultures that it feels bizarre to speak to some of them. Go down five houses in a richer white neighborhood and you will not typically find neighbors that share really common understanding among one another.)
  - throwaway29812 4y ago
    Does your anecdote include the immigrant experience? You are perhaps describing the experience of a Lebanese in Lebanon, or a German in Germany. What about everyone else? > A big part of American fear is knowing that nearly every single person you interact with that isn't a friend of yours doesn't really consider you their "people". The other side of this coin: America actually accepts people from other places. Most of the world will always see you as foreign if you come from abroad, even if you have lived there your whole life.
    - quacked 4y ago
      I don't think America accepts immigrants; in most places there's a pleasant apathy toward them. You're not really considered "American" by most born here unless you're born here and have the accent, and even then people are understood to belong primarily to their own ethnic group. The American ideal is now a civic society that's not predicated on the idea of having a "people" who the nation-state is created for. Citizens still often think that they have a "people", but that delineation does not extend to all Americans. As an example a second-gen Mexican person is not particularly likely to consider me part of their "clan" even though we are both American. When everyone's foreign, no one is.
- ironick09 4y ago
  Honestly this just sounds entirely made up. It seems surreal to me that you live your life in fear, of what? The United States? Either that or you’re extremely over exaggerating.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - throwaway29812 4y ago
    People work hard to justify their decisions after they made them: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Choice-supportive_bias https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Choice-supportive_bias
- throwaway29812 4y ago
  > Every American expat I know has a similar-ish process where they have to get over the fear/anxiety from living in the US. So your selection bias includes only people that have made the decision to leave. Do you not see the issue ? Even if you didn't select into people who left presumably for a reason, this is still an anecdote. It's your opinion, your reality. It's not shared. For example, I have an anecdote of living in the EU. It's cloudy 10 months out of the year, everywhere except in the south. No one told me that. Winters were harsh. Foreigners in general were not accepted, most social interactions were with other ex-pats. Salary was much lower and that limited my ability to buy property and save for retirement. I could go on. But what I wouldn't do is broadcast all of this as if it's some kind of universal truth. It's just my experience.

withinboredom 4y ago

Every American expat I know has a similar-ish process where they have to get over the fear/anxiety from living in the US. It’s a proper dinner topic. So yes, I assume it’s typical. Perhaps not 1:1, but there are always similar elements. Edit to add: everyone says they never noticed it while living there. They only noticed it after the first few months/years when it was no longer present.

kelipso 4y ago
I have experienced this every time I go out if the country for two weeks and come back. Main thing I notice is the fear I sense in people whenever cops are nearby, and definitely the sense of this security state hovering over everyone. The feeling of personal freedom I have feels like it gets wrenched away whenever I enter the US. The talk of freedom in America is basically cope for having no personal freedom. Wherever you go there's some security fuck hovering around watching and waiting for you to fuck up.
- throwaway29812 4y ago
  > Main thing I notice is the fear I sense in people whenever cops are nearby, and definitely the sense of this security state hovering over everyone. As someone that has lived in a police state before, I can't tell you that your feelings in the US aren't valid. They are yours alone. But perhaps travel somewhere were actual security forces search you randomly, harass you for no reason, etc. Experiences I have never had in the US, not once.
  - kelipso 4y ago
    You lived in a shithole, so what? 80% of a shithole is still a shithole.
    - throwaway29812 4y ago
      If you are going to shorthand entire countries as "shitholes" you should do so up front, so I don't waste my time responding to you.
      - kelipso 4y ago
        I don't need to hear some bullshit about how hard you've had it in some random country, could not give a shit. At least we are not in Nazi Germany lol is not something I'll care about.
        throwaway29812 4y ago
        It's called perspective. If you don't have it, fine. But I wouldn't loudly brag about how small your world is.
        kelipso 4y ago
        I don't care about the "perspective" of some shithole country, just like I don't care about the perspective of some caveman complaining about how Ugg was mean to him or whatever.
        throwaway29812 4y ago
        If you are going to say something like this: > Main thing I notice is the fear I sense in people whenever cops are nearby, and definitely the sense of this security state hovering over everyone You should know what that feels like, when it actually occurs. Similarly when someone rushes to declare their country has become "Nazi Germany", they ought to read a history book or two.
quacked 4y ago
I don't think that other countries have had their social fabric broken down quite as far as Americans have. A big part of American fear is knowing that nearly every single person you interact with that isn't a friend of yours doesn't really consider you their "people". No matter what ethnicity or social class you come from, if you leave the house you're going to spend a lot of time around people that don't feel any particular loyalty to you, and you end up always watching your back. Can't trust the cops, can't trust the poor people, can't trust the rich people, don't know your neighbors that well, just keep your eyes on your phone. (This isn't just a skin color thing, even white people in America have such diverse in-cultures that it feels bizarre to speak to some of them. Go down five houses in a richer white neighborhood and you will not typically find neighbors that share really common understanding among one another.)
- throwaway29812 4y ago
  Does your anecdote include the immigrant experience? You are perhaps describing the experience of a Lebanese in Lebanon, or a German in Germany. What about everyone else? > A big part of American fear is knowing that nearly every single person you interact with that isn't a friend of yours doesn't really consider you their "people". The other side of this coin: America actually accepts people from other places. Most of the world will always see you as foreign if you come from abroad, even if you have lived there your whole life.
  - quacked 4y ago
    I don't think America accepts immigrants; in most places there's a pleasant apathy toward them. You're not really considered "American" by most born here unless you're born here and have the accent, and even then people are understood to belong primarily to their own ethnic group. The American ideal is now a civic society that's not predicated on the idea of having a "people" who the nation-state is created for. Citizens still often think that they have a "people", but that delineation does not extend to all Americans. As an example a second-gen Mexican person is not particularly likely to consider me part of their "clan" even though we are both American. When everyone's foreign, no one is.
ironick09 4y ago
Honestly this just sounds entirely made up. It seems surreal to me that you live your life in fear, of what? The United States? Either that or you’re extremely over exaggerating.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- throwaway29812 4y ago
  People work hard to justify their decisions after they made them: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Choice-supportive_bias https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Choice-supportive_bias
throwaway29812 4y ago
> Every American expat I know has a similar-ish process where they have to get over the fear/anxiety from living in the US. So your selection bias includes only people that have made the decision to leave. Do you not see the issue ? Even if you didn't select into people who left presumably for a reason, this is still an anecdote. It's your opinion, your reality. It's not shared. For example, I have an anecdote of living in the EU. It's cloudy 10 months out of the year, everywhere except in the south. No one told me that. Winters were harsh. Foreigners in general were not accepted, most social interactions were with other ex-pats. Salary was much lower and that limited my ability to buy property and save for retirement. I could go on. But what I wouldn't do is broadcast all of this as if it's some kind of universal truth. It's just my experience.