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this somehow always comes up when anybody mentions human sweating or how good we are walking large distances. But whoever thinks it's feasible to hunt any anima

this somehow always comes up when anybody mentions human sweating or how good we are walking large distances. But whoever thinks it's feasible to hunt any animal worth its calories just jogging behind it has never chased a playful dog. A furry mammal with no sweat glands has way more endurance than any fit man and let's not talk about top speed. You'd never catch it.

SketchySeaBeast 4y ago
Plus, now you're exhausted and you've chased it for how long? If you've run for the last 18 hours exhausting the gazelle, home is now an 18 hour jog back the other way, and you won't be jogging, you'll be lugging a gazelle with you and you're already utterly exhausted.
- pegasus 4y ago
  Why would you be in such a rush to return home?
  - SketchySeaBeast 4y ago
    Conceivably everyone you left at home is waiting for you and the meat.
- jrootabega 4y ago
  It would make sense to try to flank the animal and get it to run where you wanted it to.
- mklepaczewski 4y ago
  Is gazelle able to jog for 18 hours in a hot day? Or even for 2 hours? Keep in mind that the predator chooses the prey. Humans didn't had to chase gazelles, they may choose something bigger and slower.
pegasus 4y ago
Not so: https://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/27/health/27well.html https://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/27/health/27well.html "But when it comes to long distances, humans can outrun almost any animal. Because we cool by sweating rather than panting, we can stay cool at speeds and distances that would overheat other animals. On a hot day, the two scientists wrote, a human could even outrun a horse in a 26.2-mile marathon."
- jaggederest 4y ago
  And we know because there are a number of "human versus horse" races over long distances that are occasionally won by humans. Generally the longer the race the more often humans win.
- bernawil 4y ago
  > distances that would overheat other animals what other animals? I used the dog example because it fits perfectly here: they don't sweat yet it's impossible to catch up to them if they are running away. Even if they overheat they don't just drop dead, they slow down to a human's walking pace. And what about running animals that do sweat like horses? makes no sense. What makes more sense is to approach from multiple fronts and spear/arrow it down. Plus, all remaining hunter-gatherers hunt with the help of dogs. Sure, you do have to run, a lot. But the endurance side is the least important.
  - kirrent 4y ago
    You seem very confident that a human can't catch a dog on a hot day. I hate to be that person, but do you have a source for that? I've gone running with plenty of different dogs in temperatures of above 30 degrees over the years. Smaller or stockier dogs (like a staffy) fade very fast. Within a couple of kms. Working breeds (retrievers/poodles/kelpies/collies) will leave you in their dust but this is why the endurance hunting hypothesis relies on efficient tracking while running. If they're running on the lead, especially when it's a bit hotter, they seem to lose it after about 10kms. On a cooler day these same dogs would leave me dead.
    - 4y ago
NineStarPoint 4y ago
Dogs also have unusually high endurance actually, some breeds extremely so like sled dogs (up there in the top three with humans and horses). In general wolves are already pretty high up there endurance wise, and dogs probably had an evolutionary incentive to be able to keep up with us better on top of that.
mklepaczewski 4y ago
On short distances all dogs outpace humans. After an hour of running most dogs will just quit. On several occasions I had very hard time convincing various dogs to get off the ground after an 8-10km run.
- bernawil 4y ago
  my point is, can a human reasonably stay within viewing distance from a dog that is running away from him? the dog can just run at top speed, gain some distance, take a little rest and maintain that distance at a comfortable pace. I used to believe in the endurance hunting thing until I realized playing with my dog it didn't make sense. They DO get tired, but they take a 1 minute break and it's like they are back square 0. For the record, I'm in shape and with a pretty light frame (181cm/70kg) and go for 10km/1 hour jogs regularly.
  - mklepaczewski 4y ago
    On a steppe? I think so, I don't see why not. An animal running at or close to top speed might only speed up its exhaustion - it's much easier to run 1km at a steady pace than to do 10x100m intervals. Try to play with your dog for an hour at high intensity. If your dog belongs to a large or very large breed it'll get tired much more quickly than you - assuming you're in somewhat good shape. I'm not advocating in favor of endurance hunting, I'm only stating that we can out-endure some large-ish animals.
  - exclusiv 4y ago
    Pretty sure this guy can catch your dog even if your dog was on cocaine, remained focus, and had someone feeding it water periodically: [1] https://www.irunfar.com/aleksandr-sorokin-smashes-24-hour-world-record-with-198-6-mile-319-6-kilometer-run https://www.irunfar.com/aleksandr-sorokin-smashes-24-hour-wo...
    - mklepaczewski 4y ago
      It's only fair to compare exceptional individual to an exceptional breed. According to Google Husky can run 240km in a day. Exceptional Husky might do much better. Average Husky will easily outrun most human runners. Still, this is an exception to the rule - overall humans outperform almost all animals when it comes to endurance running.
PhasmaFelis 4y ago
https://youtu.be/826HMLoiE_o https://youtu.be/826HMLoiE_o I think you're misunderstanding how endurance hunting works. There is no land-dweller on Earth that can outpace a fit, prepared human in a hot, dry environment indefinitely. Not even a horse; Google it. We're slow in the sprint, but we're monsters of endurance. (By "fit" I mean "makes a living this way," not "jogs and hits the gym regularly.")
strken 4y ago
Anyone who's tried to go for a significant walk or run with a dog on a hot day can attest that they don't handle distances and heats humans can. My brother once went on a 24km run in summer with our Labrador x Kelpie and had to stop 5km in and slowly walk back, because the otherwise very fit dog couldn't cope with the heat. I have no idea whether that's an adaptation to endurance hunting or just to normal ambush hunting over long distances in the hot and humid African wet season, but it's pretty undeniable that dogs don't have more long-distance endurance than a fit man on a hot day.

SketchySeaBeast 4y ago

Plus, now you're exhausted and you've chased it for how long? If you've run for the last 18 hours exhausting the gazelle, home is now an 18 hour jog back the other way, and you won't be jogging, you'll be lugging a gazelle with you and you're already utterly exhausted.

pegasus 4y ago
Why would you be in such a rush to return home?
- SketchySeaBeast 4y ago
  Conceivably everyone you left at home is waiting for you and the meat.
jrootabega 4y ago
It would make sense to try to flank the animal and get it to run where you wanted it to.
mklepaczewski 4y ago
Is gazelle able to jog for 18 hours in a hot day? Or even for 2 hours? Keep in mind that the predator chooses the prey. Humans didn't had to chase gazelles, they may choose something bigger and slower.

pegasus 4y ago

Not so: https://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/27/health/27well.html https://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/27/health/27well.html "But when it comes to long distances, humans can outrun almost any animal. Because we cool by sweating rather than panting, we can stay cool at speeds and distances that would overheat other animals. On a hot day, the two scientists wrote, a human could even outrun a horse in a 26.2-mile marathon."

jaggederest 4y ago
And we know because there are a number of "human versus horse" races over long distances that are occasionally won by humans. Generally the longer the race the more often humans win.
bernawil 4y ago
> distances that would overheat other animals what other animals? I used the dog example because it fits perfectly here: they don't sweat yet it's impossible to catch up to them if they are running away. Even if they overheat they don't just drop dead, they slow down to a human's walking pace. And what about running animals that do sweat like horses? makes no sense. What makes more sense is to approach from multiple fronts and spear/arrow it down. Plus, all remaining hunter-gatherers hunt with the help of dogs. Sure, you do have to run, a lot. But the endurance side is the least important.
- kirrent 4y ago
  You seem very confident that a human can't catch a dog on a hot day. I hate to be that person, but do you have a source for that? I've gone running with plenty of different dogs in temperatures of above 30 degrees over the years. Smaller or stockier dogs (like a staffy) fade very fast. Within a couple of kms. Working breeds (retrievers/poodles/kelpies/collies) will leave you in their dust but this is why the endurance hunting hypothesis relies on efficient tracking while running. If they're running on the lead, especially when it's a bit hotter, they seem to lose it after about 10kms. On a cooler day these same dogs would leave me dead.
  - 4y ago

NineStarPoint 4y ago

Dogs also have unusually high endurance actually, some breeds extremely so like sled dogs (up there in the top three with humans and horses). In general wolves are already pretty high up there endurance wise, and dogs probably had an evolutionary incentive to be able to keep up with us better on top of that.

mklepaczewski 4y ago

On short distances all dogs outpace humans. After an hour of running most dogs will just quit. On several occasions I had very hard time convincing various dogs to get off the ground after an 8-10km run.

bernawil 4y ago
my point is, can a human reasonably stay within viewing distance from a dog that is running away from him? the dog can just run at top speed, gain some distance, take a little rest and maintain that distance at a comfortable pace. I used to believe in the endurance hunting thing until I realized playing with my dog it didn't make sense. They DO get tired, but they take a 1 minute break and it's like they are back square 0. For the record, I'm in shape and with a pretty light frame (181cm/70kg) and go for 10km/1 hour jogs regularly.
- mklepaczewski 4y ago
  On a steppe? I think so, I don't see why not. An animal running at or close to top speed might only speed up its exhaustion - it's much easier to run 1km at a steady pace than to do 10x100m intervals. Try to play with your dog for an hour at high intensity. If your dog belongs to a large or very large breed it'll get tired much more quickly than you - assuming you're in somewhat good shape. I'm not advocating in favor of endurance hunting, I'm only stating that we can out-endure some large-ish animals.
- exclusiv 4y ago
  Pretty sure this guy can catch your dog even if your dog was on cocaine, remained focus, and had someone feeding it water periodically: [1] https://www.irunfar.com/aleksandr-sorokin-smashes-24-hour-world-record-with-198-6-mile-319-6-kilometer-run https://www.irunfar.com/aleksandr-sorokin-smashes-24-hour-wo...
  - mklepaczewski 4y ago
    It's only fair to compare exceptional individual to an exceptional breed. According to Google Husky can run 240km in a day. Exceptional Husky might do much better. Average Husky will easily outrun most human runners. Still, this is an exception to the rule - overall humans outperform almost all animals when it comes to endurance running.

PhasmaFelis 4y ago

https://youtu.be/826HMLoiE_o https://youtu.be/826HMLoiE_o I think you're misunderstanding how endurance hunting works. There is no land-dweller on Earth that can outpace a fit, prepared human in a hot, dry environment indefinitely. Not even a horse; Google it. We're slow in the sprint, but we're monsters of endurance. (By "fit" I mean "makes a living this way," not "jogs and hits the gym regularly.")

strken 4y ago

Anyone who's tried to go for a significant walk or run with a dog on a hot day can attest that they don't handle distances and heats humans can. My brother once went on a 24km run in summer with our Labrador x Kelpie and had to stop 5km in and slowly walk back, because the otherwise very fit dog couldn't cope with the heat. I have no idea whether that's an adaptation to endurance hunting or just to normal ambush hunting over long distances in the hot and humid African wet season, but it's pretty undeniable that dogs don't have more long-distance endurance than a fit man on a hot day.