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You are always paying that! Ads aren't free either. Neither is the marketing, the website, the app, etc. Getting your customers is expensive, serving them is as

by ralfn 4y ago

You are always paying that! Ads aren't free either. Neither is the marketing, the website, the app, etc. Getting your customers is expensive, serving them is as well. But you wouldn't need any of those to compete in this market, any more than an Uber driver would need that. All you need is to tell a chat about your API and focus on your actual product. It is a much more submissive relationship with the customer, but not a less profitable one.

travisjungroth 4y ago
It’s not the same. The mechanism has a serious effect on behavior. You’re saying you would give the chat a cut but it’s not yours to give. You pay $100 for something and you tell the vendor “I found this through chat. You get $70 and they get $30.” I don’t really see that working. If the vendor opts-in to this relationship and chat only shows people who pay then it’s called advertising or reselling. If they show everyone, then there’s little incentive to pay. I’m not saying it’s unsolvable, but this getting a cut idea is not a solution. I do see abandoning normal advertising and optimizing for chat being possible. It’s like SEO. Not sure it’s a sufficient model for the chat services.
- ralfn 4y ago
  Let me phrase it differently. When people give Apple Music a cut of their song sales, or when people give Apple a cut of their iOS in game spending, it is not called advertisement. When you pay to tell someone who doesn't want to hear it about your product, thats advertisement. The smart play here is the platform play. Clicking on a link and leaving the chat is the opposite of the intent and purpose of the chat. It makes sense for search because going to another website is the point. For search it is the correct business model, but for chat it is not. The chat is the platform. Leaving it breaks all the advantages.
  - ezst 4y ago
    > When people give Apple Music a cut of their song sales, or when people give Apple a cut of their iOS in game spending, it is not called advertisement. That's assuming the song or app you purchase isn't the result of heavy promotion in the first place (in all ways possible, direct or indirect)…
  - travisjungroth 4y ago
    Apple Music is a reseller, distributor, whatever you want to call it. Their interests are generally more aligned with yours but not entirely. This commission based system is not a silver bullet. It won’t be the optimal business model, the smart move, and be totally aligned with your interests. You can’t do that with commissions. No one is going to trust it to help them decide between going on a vacation versus taking time off at home when it’s getting a cut of the plane tickets.

by ralfn 4y ago

travisjungroth 4y ago

It’s not the same. The mechanism has a serious effect on behavior. You’re saying you would give the chat a cut but it’s not yours to give. You pay $100 for something and you tell the vendor “I found this through chat. You get $70 and they get $30.” I don’t really see that working. If the vendor opts-in to this relationship and chat only shows people who pay then it’s called advertising or reselling. If they show everyone, then there’s little incentive to pay. I’m not saying it’s unsolvable, but this getting a cut idea is not a solution. I do see abandoning normal advertising and optimizing for chat being possible. It’s like SEO. Not sure it’s a sufficient model for the chat services.

ralfn 4y ago
Let me phrase it differently. When people give Apple Music a cut of their song sales, or when people give Apple a cut of their iOS in game spending, it is not called advertisement. When you pay to tell someone who doesn't want to hear it about your product, thats advertisement. The smart play here is the platform play. Clicking on a link and leaving the chat is the opposite of the intent and purpose of the chat. It makes sense for search because going to another website is the point. For search it is the correct business model, but for chat it is not. The chat is the platform. Leaving it breaks all the advantages.
- ezst 4y ago
  > When people give Apple Music a cut of their song sales, or when people give Apple a cut of their iOS in game spending, it is not called advertisement. That's assuming the song or app you purchase isn't the result of heavy promotion in the first place (in all ways possible, direct or indirect)…
- travisjungroth 4y ago
  Apple Music is a reseller, distributor, whatever you want to call it. Their interests are generally more aligned with yours but not entirely. This commission based system is not a silver bullet. It won’t be the optimal business model, the smart move, and be totally aligned with your interests. You can’t do that with commissions. No one is going to trust it to help them decide between going on a vacation versus taking time off at home when it’s getting a cut of the plane tickets.