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True enough, but I don't believe that's the discussion we are, or should be, having. I think it's a case of reanalysing our consideration of the advantages and

True enough, but I don't believe that's the discussion we are, or should be, having. I think it's a case of reanalysing our consideration of the advantages and disadvantages of low-wage labour and being very fastidious about how we approach both. It is correct to say that we can't care about what is happening in sweatshops, but it's also correct to say that we need to be more careful about our arguments against them. It's more complicated than many people (not to say that you are one of these) believe.

MartinCron 15y ago
I totally agree it's more complex than just "sweatshops are bad!" I think that Mike Daisey would agree with that as well. I would like the conversation to shift to simple concrete things can be done that aren't about raising wages or closing factories. Two examples: Rotating workers through different parts of the assembly line, which decreases repetitive strain injuries and doing meaningful age verification so you're not employing people who are too young (based on the local laws) to be employed in that kind of work.
- awj 15y ago
  Ironically, Apple already does at least one of those two. See the section on "Preventing underage labor." http://www.apple.com/supplierresponsibility/code-of-conduct/labor-and-human-rights.html http://www.apple.com/supplierresponsibility/code-of-conduct/... I'm also a fan of less dramatic changes here. It's too easy to get romantic about this subject and delude yourself into thinking you can change the world tomorrow. I think it's better to work on making tomorrow a little better than today.
  - MartinCron 15y ago
    It's not exactly ironic, I mentioned it because I knew it was something Apple cares about and is working to address. I am personally optimistic about the future, with small changes brought about by pressure, these jobs can be better than they are without destroying prices or margins.
- Natsu 15y ago
  Some items for your list: * On-site nurses/trained first aid providers. * Formal training program for anyone operating anything potentially dangerous. * MSDS (material safety data sheets) for all chemicals. * Proper PPE (personal protective equipment) * LOTO program (lock-out/tag-out) * Safety testing. * Workman's comp

MartinCron 15y ago

I totally agree it's more complex than just "sweatshops are bad!" I think that Mike Daisey would agree with that as well. I would like the conversation to shift to simple concrete things can be done that aren't about raising wages or closing factories. Two examples: Rotating workers through different parts of the assembly line, which decreases repetitive strain injuries and doing meaningful age verification so you're not employing people who are too young (based on the local laws) to be employed in that kind of work.

awj 15y ago
Ironically, Apple already does at least one of those two. See the section on "Preventing underage labor." http://www.apple.com/supplierresponsibility/code-of-conduct/labor-and-human-rights.html http://www.apple.com/supplierresponsibility/code-of-conduct/... I'm also a fan of less dramatic changes here. It's too easy to get romantic about this subject and delude yourself into thinking you can change the world tomorrow. I think it's better to work on making tomorrow a little better than today.
- MartinCron 15y ago
  It's not exactly ironic, I mentioned it because I knew it was something Apple cares about and is working to address. I am personally optimistic about the future, with small changes brought about by pressure, these jobs can be better than they are without destroying prices or margins.
Natsu 15y ago
Some items for your list: * On-site nurses/trained first aid providers. * Formal training program for anyone operating anything potentially dangerous. * MSDS (material safety data sheets) for all chemicals. * Proper PPE (personal protective equipment) * LOTO program (lock-out/tag-out) * Safety testing. * Workman's comp