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> Maybe I shouldn’t complain, though; laying off management alongside labor should be normalized. If that includes C-level, I'm all for it. By definition, they

> Maybe I shouldn’t complain, though; laying off management alongside labor should be normalized. If that includes C-level, I'm all for it. By definition, they have failed.

dehrmann 4y ago
You have to look at the circumstances. If you were an airline laying off pilots in April 2020, no, this wasn't a C-level failure. Sometimes, the layoffs were because of bad C-level decisions, and leadership should take a hard look at how did performed and if they should still be there. And sometimes, even if leadership screwed up, the uncertainty if they leave isn't worth it.
hn_throwaway_99 4y ago
I understand people feel differently, and layoffs can certainly be extremely disruptive to those affected, but I don't consider them a mark of "failure" of management. What's better, to get hired, paid a great salary and gain experience and knowledge for a couple years, and then get laid off with 4 months severance+benefits, or never get hired at all? To be clear, I think there are some fair arguments (not necessarily ones I agree with) for "never get hired at all", but just be clear, that is what you are arguing for.
- snozolli 4y ago
  and then get laid off with 4 months severance+benefits And a black mark on your record that every HR drone will pick up on like a bloodhound.
  - hn_throwaway_99 4y ago
    The thing that's "safer" about getting laid off when there are huge rounds throughout many different companies is that it is actually even more accurate to say that it had 0 to do with job performance. True, obviously companies use layoffs to get rid of low performers, but there are just numerous cases where companies are canning entire divisions, e.g. the Alexa-device-focused teams at Amazon or the metaverse team at Disney. I highly doubt these most recent layoffs will be treated as much of a black mark.
    - snozolli 4y ago
      Following the Great Recession, there were job postings that literally said not to apply unless you already had a job. You wildly underestimate the degree to which HR will mindlessly inflict their uniformed bias on the rest of us.
      - JohnFen 4y ago
        Even if they don't make it an actual requirement, it's almost always easier to get a job while you have a job.
nostromo 4y ago
Disney did just fire their CEO though. Although he got a $20m exit package which undoubtedly softened the blow.

> Maybe I shouldn’t complain, though; laying off management alongside labor should be normalized. If that includes C-level, I'm all for it. By definition, they have failed.

dehrmann 4y ago

You have to look at the circumstances. If you were an airline laying off pilots in April 2020, no, this wasn't a C-level failure. Sometimes, the layoffs were because of bad C-level decisions, and leadership should take a hard look at how did performed and if they should still be there. And sometimes, even if leadership screwed up, the uncertainty if they leave isn't worth it.

hn_throwaway_99 4y ago

I understand people feel differently, and layoffs can certainly be extremely disruptive to those affected, but I don't consider them a mark of "failure" of management. What's better, to get hired, paid a great salary and gain experience and knowledge for a couple years, and then get laid off with 4 months severance+benefits, or never get hired at all? To be clear, I think there are some fair arguments (not necessarily ones I agree with) for "never get hired at all", but just be clear, that is what you are arguing for.

snozolli 4y ago
and then get laid off with 4 months severance+benefits And a black mark on your record that every HR drone will pick up on like a bloodhound.
- hn_throwaway_99 4y ago
  The thing that's "safer" about getting laid off when there are huge rounds throughout many different companies is that it is actually even more accurate to say that it had 0 to do with job performance. True, obviously companies use layoffs to get rid of low performers, but there are just numerous cases where companies are canning entire divisions, e.g. the Alexa-device-focused teams at Amazon or the metaverse team at Disney. I highly doubt these most recent layoffs will be treated as much of a black mark.
  - snozolli 4y ago
    Following the Great Recession, there were job postings that literally said not to apply unless you already had a job. You wildly underestimate the degree to which HR will mindlessly inflict their uniformed bias on the rest of us.
    - JohnFen 4y ago
      Even if they don't make it an actual requirement, it's almost always easier to get a job while you have a job.

nostromo 4y ago

Disney did just fire their CEO though. Although he got a $20m exit package which undoubtedly softened the blow.