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The problem with this is that set of laptops is so small and restrictive. It's mostly just Clevo rebadges which feel kinda cheap and have design choices that ar

The problem with this is that set of laptops is so small and restrictive. It's mostly just Clevo rebadges which feel kinda cheap and have design choices that are becoming outdated like 16:9 screens and a couple of models from Dell and HP. My general rules of thumb for selecting laptops for linux: - Avoid Realtek wherever possible, usually in favor of Intel. Even though Realtek hardware usually technically works on Linux, it's often in a reduced or buggy capacity. - Avoid Nvidia. This might change soon now that Nvidia is finally being a bit more open with driver development, but for now Nvidia cards are still likely cause of unnecessary pain. - If possible, avoid discrete GPUs. AMD cards are more likely to be well-behaved than Nvidia cards but often the most trouble-free experience is with nothing but an iGPU. This is really only practical for users who use laptops for their portability and have a desktop for where raw power is necessary.

trelane 4y ago
> The problem with this is that set of laptops is so small and restrictive. I disagree on this and the supposed Clevo point. Got a source for "just a Clevo" rebadge? Also, support and firmware.
- kitsunesoba 4y ago
  Many of the names that come to mind when mentioning Linux-native laptops like system76 and Tuxedo Computers use Clevo as their ODM. They make some tweaks to the hardware and might change the firmware, but at the end of the day, they're still Clevo complete with aforementioned warts (like 16:9 screens and questionable build quality). There are exceptions like Starlabs Systems and Purism, but they're the exception and not the norm.
  - trelane 4y ago
    All vendors use an ODM. That doesn't mean that buying from the ODM directly will get you the same experience as buying from them. The vendor cam work with the ODM to customize hardware and firmware, so "rebadge" is a really poor way of describing it. But yes, if you want a non-Clevo ODM there aren't as many options. Note, though, that buying from Windows vendors will make the situation worse, not better.
    - kitsunesoba 4y ago
      Yes, but in the case of Linux laptop companies using Clevo it’s much closer to a rebadge. They’re all built around the same off-the-shelf designs, which means they share flaws in common, which was my whole point: there’s a serious lack of choice in Linux laptops if those quirks of Clevo designs are dealbreakers for you.
    - csdvrx 4y ago
      > The vendor cam work with the ODM to customize hardware and firmware, so "rebadge" is a really poor way of describing it It's the best way to describe it: they change maybe the wifi card, certainly the logo, tweak a few bios defaults, and for sure you a premium for that, but that's all they can do, and nothing you couldn't do yourself (except the logo, unless you like stickers lol) > Note, though, that buying from Windows vendors will make the situation worse, not better. In term of having more rebadging? Yes, there will be more parasites taking advantage of people who want to buy the right to have someone to blame for their laptop not working correctly on Linux. But it terms on Linux support, it will not change anything: Lenovo still offers the best support, with other companies except Framework limited by their dependance on Clevo It might even make things worse, by leading those who've been taken advantage of by unscrupulous companies that Linux just doesn't work well on laptops. More important, for those wanting the best results, it will be counter productive: they will certainly have someone to blame (they paid for that "right" after all) but they could have instead taken the problem in their own hands and made their hardware work, with the help of resources like archwiki. It's not the ideal solution, but I think Framework will need another 5 to 10 years to be really competitive to Lenovo. In the meantime, I would be happy to support them or help them, but now that I've decided 2023 is my year of Linux on the desktop, it'll have to be on a Lenovo.
      - trelane 4y ago
        > It's the best way to describe it: they change maybe the wifi card, certainly the logo, tweak a few bios defaults, and for sure you a premium for that, but that's all they can do Nope. That's 100% false. https://twitter.com/jeremy_soller/status/1322954630448427011 https://twitter.com/jeremy_soller/status/1322954630448427011 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17039414 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17039414 I don't get why Lenovos are supposedly so great. The one I had at work was _terrible_, hands down the worst Linux experience I've ever had. And I put Linux on a bunch of Windows boxen back when we had no choices in the matter.

trelane 4y ago

> The problem with this is that set of laptops is so small and restrictive. I disagree on this and the supposed Clevo point. Got a source for "just a Clevo" rebadge? Also, support and firmware.

kitsunesoba 4y ago
Many of the names that come to mind when mentioning Linux-native laptops like system76 and Tuxedo Computers use Clevo as their ODM. They make some tweaks to the hardware and might change the firmware, but at the end of the day, they're still Clevo complete with aforementioned warts (like 16:9 screens and questionable build quality). There are exceptions like Starlabs Systems and Purism, but they're the exception and not the norm.
- trelane 4y ago
  All vendors use an ODM. That doesn't mean that buying from the ODM directly will get you the same experience as buying from them. The vendor cam work with the ODM to customize hardware and firmware, so "rebadge" is a really poor way of describing it. But yes, if you want a non-Clevo ODM there aren't as many options. Note, though, that buying from Windows vendors will make the situation worse, not better.
  - kitsunesoba 4y ago
    Yes, but in the case of Linux laptop companies using Clevo it’s much closer to a rebadge. They’re all built around the same off-the-shelf designs, which means they share flaws in common, which was my whole point: there’s a serious lack of choice in Linux laptops if those quirks of Clevo designs are dealbreakers for you.
  - csdvrx 4y ago
    > The vendor cam work with the ODM to customize hardware and firmware, so "rebadge" is a really poor way of describing it It's the best way to describe it: they change maybe the wifi card, certainly the logo, tweak a few bios defaults, and for sure you a premium for that, but that's all they can do, and nothing you couldn't do yourself (except the logo, unless you like stickers lol) > Note, though, that buying from Windows vendors will make the situation worse, not better. In term of having more rebadging? Yes, there will be more parasites taking advantage of people who want to buy the right to have someone to blame for their laptop not working correctly on Linux. But it terms on Linux support, it will not change anything: Lenovo still offers the best support, with other companies except Framework limited by their dependance on Clevo It might even make things worse, by leading those who've been taken advantage of by unscrupulous companies that Linux just doesn't work well on laptops. More important, for those wanting the best results, it will be counter productive: they will certainly have someone to blame (they paid for that "right" after all) but they could have instead taken the problem in their own hands and made their hardware work, with the help of resources like archwiki. It's not the ideal solution, but I think Framework will need another 5 to 10 years to be really competitive to Lenovo. In the meantime, I would be happy to support them or help them, but now that I've decided 2023 is my year of Linux on the desktop, it'll have to be on a Lenovo.
    - trelane 4y ago
      > It's the best way to describe it: they change maybe the wifi card, certainly the logo, tweak a few bios defaults, and for sure you a premium for that, but that's all they can do Nope. That's 100% false. https://twitter.com/jeremy_soller/status/1322954630448427011 https://twitter.com/jeremy_soller/status/1322954630448427011 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17039414 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17039414 I don't get why Lenovos are supposedly so great. The one I had at work was _terrible_, hands down the worst Linux experience I've ever had. And I put Linux on a bunch of Windows boxen back when we had no choices in the matter.