3 ms·

> you can stop at a charger and top-up. It's a small battery, it doesn't take long the problem is scaling. gas takes on average less than a minute per car to

> you can stop at a charger and top-up. It's a small battery, it doesn't take long the problem is scaling. gas takes on average less than a minute per car to top up the tank (gas pump emits ~0.5 liters per second, my car tank capacity is less than 30 liters), if a battery charge requires say 15 minutes (I actually don't know the real number, but I have a feeling that it's usually more than that) that's 15 times longer waiting times and 15 times less capacity per station. Or more stops.

stickfigure 4y ago
We don't use the Fiat for road trips, but we often caravan with friends with Teslas. Every couple hours they stop at a supercharger station for 15 minutes. It's really not that bad; we stop as often just to keep our kiddo sane. The stations usually have interesting services next door. Supercharger stations usually have dozens of spots; gas stations typically have maybe ten? An EV station just needs one parking spot per car, so they are much more space efficient than gas stations. The only real constraint is electrical infrastructure. BTW it averages much more than 1m per car for fueling. Person gets out of the car, fishes around in their purse for the credit card, fiddles with the cryptic instructions on the pump, walks into store to piss and buy junk food... if you've had to wait at a busy station, you'd be acutely aware of just how long fueling actually takes. Humans are slow.
- peoplefromibiza 4y ago
  > Every couple hours they stop at a supercharger station for 15 minutes. It's really not that bad; It actually is kinda bad, if you ask me. > An EV station just needs one parking spot per car Huge gas stations are not that common outside of the US The average gas stations in my city are like this https://c7.alamy.com/compit/2ak83cy/gli-operatori-e-auto-a-gas-street-station-stazione-di-benzina-roma-italia-2ak83cy.jpg https://c7.alamy.com/compit/2ak83cy/gli-operatori-e-auto-a-g... They don't actually take that much space and serve hundreds of cars per day. They don't need to stay stationary for a long time. > BTW it averages much more than 1m per car for fueling. Not really. On average people refuel, they do not fill up the tank. BTW it could well be that my POV from a different country is biased.
  - kalleboo 4y ago
    Most people in cities will be charging at home though, the big supercharging stations will be along the highways where people are driving for hours. And with how simple car chargers are, they can just be a part of supermarket parking lots, etc.
    - peoplefromibiza 4y ago
      > Most people in cities will be charging at home though That's exactly where the US and the rest of the World diverge. In most of the rest of the World people in cities are precisely those who would not be charging at home, because it would be impossible. Besides, my car is parked 5 minutes walking away from where my house is. And I've been extremely lucky to find a parking spot so close. If what you meant is that the cars will be charging at night while they are parked on the streets, think again. On street chargers here won't be a common thing for the next 20 years, at least. Not to say that it's impossible, but it's hardly a worthy switch, from the POV of users. A much better solution would be drastically reducing the dependency from cars, instead of electrifying them and marketing them as the next cool thing, so that a lot more cars will be clogging and occupying a lot of parking space on our perfectly cyclable and perfectly walkable pavements and roads.
      - kalleboo 4y ago
        I'm not from or live in the US so you don't need to preach to me about the rest of the world. Lamp-post charging is already being rolled out in parts of Europe https://ubitricity.com/en/driver/charging-network-map/ https://ubitricity.com/en/driver/charging-network-map/ Once EVs are more common, it will make more sense for parking lot operators to offer charging services for more income. You say that it will take over 20 years to roll out on-street charging, but somehow reducing the dependency on cars can be done quicker or easier? I live in Japan, which is often touted as a very public transit-friendly society, but I have 2 kids and could not live without a car. Especially in the summer with 36C+ temperatures, or during typhoon season. Believing that we can have a future with zero cars seems very unrealistic.

stickfigure 4y ago

We don't use the Fiat for road trips, but we often caravan with friends with Teslas. Every couple hours they stop at a supercharger station for 15 minutes. It's really not that bad; we stop as often just to keep our kiddo sane. The stations usually have interesting services next door. Supercharger stations usually have dozens of spots; gas stations typically have maybe ten? An EV station just needs one parking spot per car, so they are much more space efficient than gas stations. The only real constraint is electrical infrastructure. BTW it averages much more than 1m per car for fueling. Person gets out of the car, fishes around in their purse for the credit card, fiddles with the cryptic instructions on the pump, walks into store to piss and buy junk food... if you've had to wait at a busy station, you'd be acutely aware of just how long fueling actually takes. Humans are slow.

peoplefromibiza 4y ago
> Every couple hours they stop at a supercharger station for 15 minutes. It's really not that bad; It actually is kinda bad, if you ask me. > An EV station just needs one parking spot per car Huge gas stations are not that common outside of the US The average gas stations in my city are like this https://c7.alamy.com/compit/2ak83cy/gli-operatori-e-auto-a-gas-street-station-stazione-di-benzina-roma-italia-2ak83cy.jpg https://c7.alamy.com/compit/2ak83cy/gli-operatori-e-auto-a-g... They don't actually take that much space and serve hundreds of cars per day. They don't need to stay stationary for a long time. > BTW it averages much more than 1m per car for fueling. Not really. On average people refuel, they do not fill up the tank. BTW it could well be that my POV from a different country is biased.
- kalleboo 4y ago
  Most people in cities will be charging at home though, the big supercharging stations will be along the highways where people are driving for hours. And with how simple car chargers are, they can just be a part of supermarket parking lots, etc.
  - peoplefromibiza 4y ago
    > Most people in cities will be charging at home though That's exactly where the US and the rest of the World diverge. In most of the rest of the World people in cities are precisely those who would not be charging at home, because it would be impossible. Besides, my car is parked 5 minutes walking away from where my house is. And I've been extremely lucky to find a parking spot so close. If what you meant is that the cars will be charging at night while they are parked on the streets, think again. On street chargers here won't be a common thing for the next 20 years, at least. Not to say that it's impossible, but it's hardly a worthy switch, from the POV of users. A much better solution would be drastically reducing the dependency from cars, instead of electrifying them and marketing them as the next cool thing, so that a lot more cars will be clogging and occupying a lot of parking space on our perfectly cyclable and perfectly walkable pavements and roads.
    - kalleboo 4y ago
      I'm not from or live in the US so you don't need to preach to me about the rest of the world. Lamp-post charging is already being rolled out in parts of Europe https://ubitricity.com/en/driver/charging-network-map/ https://ubitricity.com/en/driver/charging-network-map/ Once EVs are more common, it will make more sense for parking lot operators to offer charging services for more income. You say that it will take over 20 years to roll out on-street charging, but somehow reducing the dependency on cars can be done quicker or easier? I live in Japan, which is often touted as a very public transit-friendly society, but I have 2 kids and could not live without a car. Especially in the summer with 36C+ temperatures, or during typhoon season. Believing that we can have a future with zero cars seems very unrealistic.