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Yes... That is why many rational people do not support this idea of unlimited democracy. The founders of he US knew very well the perils of unlimited democrac

Yes... That is why many rational people do not support this idea of unlimited democracy. The founders of he US knew very well the perils of unlimited democracy and that is why they not only attempted to check government power, but check the power of the majority I dont want to be ruled by either a government in washington, nor a majority of my neighbors

Gud 4y ago
then how do you explain Switzerland, where people vote on referendums every quarter? What the world needs is more power to the people, not less. Populist movements only grow because the insulated ruling class don't listen to the people(and often don't give a shit).
- prottog 4y ago
  Switzerland is very much an exception to the rule, and even it has a written constitution limiting the government's power. "More power to the people" works when operating within a culture that values attributes that lead to a stable, wealthy society over time, and with limits to what the people can make government do. Otherwise it becomes, as they say, two wolves and a lamb deciding what to have for dinner. The Swiss do have a popular vote on things, but they aren't, for example, voting themselves free lunch and ponies for all. I don't know whether that's because the government is prohibited from providing free lunch and ponies or because the majority of people culturally value hard work and saving over immediate gratification and are educated enough to know that there is no such thing as a free lunch. Either way, it would not work out as well in places where one or both of those things are not true. Let's pick out some recent results from Switzerland: In 2022, voters rejected "Ban on animal and human experiments" and "Popular initiative against factory farming", and approved "Limiting tobacco advertising". In 2021, they rejected "Federal Act on greenhouse gas emissions" and "For clean drinking water and healthy food", and approved "Ban on full facial coverings". In 2020, they rejected "Affordable housing" and "Ban on financing weapon production" and approved "Paternity leave". In 2019, they rejected "Stop the Sprawl", and approved "Gun control directive". From this, I can gather that the Swiss as a whole are sensible people who understand that voting for things that sound good on the surface like "ban factory farming" or "more affordable housing" might lead to worse problems down the road than what it is they are trying to fix; and that they have a strong sense of cultural identity, as shown by the ban on full facial coverings. I would imagine the same questions would yield vastly different results in other places. The proposition system in California resulted in Prop 13, arguably one of the worst policy disasters ever in that state, looking back almost 45 years later. Now the San Francisco city government is talking about paying every black resident a lump sum of $5mm and a guaranteed high income for the next 250 years; what do you think a binding popular referendum would do in that city?
  - Gud 4y ago
    Regarding your question. I would believe the citizens would roll back disastrous legislation much faster than a cabal of powerful people who have staked their career on whatever the issue. I believe Switzerland is so successful as a direct result of their decentralized & direct democracy.
- phpisthebest 4y ago
  >>then how do you explain Switzerland Isolated nation of small population that is largely a monoculture with very low rate of poverty... That model does not scale to a large culturally diverse population with widely disparate income levels.
  - prottog 4y ago
    > largely a monoculture I'm no expert on Switzerland, but can it really be described as a monoculture? There are four language groups, after all. I cannot speak to the existence of an overriding Swiss ethos that people identify with.

Gud 4y ago

then how do you explain Switzerland, where people vote on referendums every quarter? What the world needs is more power to the people, not less. Populist movements only grow because the insulated ruling class don't listen to the people(and often don't give a shit).

prottog 4y ago
Switzerland is very much an exception to the rule, and even it has a written constitution limiting the government's power. "More power to the people" works when operating within a culture that values attributes that lead to a stable, wealthy society over time, and with limits to what the people can make government do. Otherwise it becomes, as they say, two wolves and a lamb deciding what to have for dinner. The Swiss do have a popular vote on things, but they aren't, for example, voting themselves free lunch and ponies for all. I don't know whether that's because the government is prohibited from providing free lunch and ponies or because the majority of people culturally value hard work and saving over immediate gratification and are educated enough to know that there is no such thing as a free lunch. Either way, it would not work out as well in places where one or both of those things are not true. Let's pick out some recent results from Switzerland: In 2022, voters rejected "Ban on animal and human experiments" and "Popular initiative against factory farming", and approved "Limiting tobacco advertising". In 2021, they rejected "Federal Act on greenhouse gas emissions" and "For clean drinking water and healthy food", and approved "Ban on full facial coverings". In 2020, they rejected "Affordable housing" and "Ban on financing weapon production" and approved "Paternity leave". In 2019, they rejected "Stop the Sprawl", and approved "Gun control directive". From this, I can gather that the Swiss as a whole are sensible people who understand that voting for things that sound good on the surface like "ban factory farming" or "more affordable housing" might lead to worse problems down the road than what it is they are trying to fix; and that they have a strong sense of cultural identity, as shown by the ban on full facial coverings. I would imagine the same questions would yield vastly different results in other places. The proposition system in California resulted in Prop 13, arguably one of the worst policy disasters ever in that state, looking back almost 45 years later. Now the San Francisco city government is talking about paying every black resident a lump sum of $5mm and a guaranteed high income for the next 250 years; what do you think a binding popular referendum would do in that city?
- Gud 4y ago
  Regarding your question. I would believe the citizens would roll back disastrous legislation much faster than a cabal of powerful people who have staked their career on whatever the issue. I believe Switzerland is so successful as a direct result of their decentralized & direct democracy.
phpisthebest 4y ago
>>then how do you explain Switzerland Isolated nation of small population that is largely a monoculture with very low rate of poverty... That model does not scale to a large culturally diverse population with widely disparate income levels.
- prottog 4y ago
  > largely a monoculture I'm no expert on Switzerland, but can it really be described as a monoculture? There are four language groups, after all. I cannot speak to the existence of an overriding Swiss ethos that people identify with.