4 ms·

Or, better, buy a computer with Linux preinstalled and with support. Then, of there's a problem, you can support and get it sorted.

horsawlarway 4y ago
Honestly - As a long time user I think you're much better off checking the Arch wiki first. It will reflect the reality of the situation for that specific set of hardware. The vendor is going to give you a sales pitch. And I say this as someone who has gone out of my way to buy hardware from vendors that officially support linux (Dell & Lenovo). In many cases - the most official support you'll get is "This is a known issue, we are working on it."
- trelane 4y ago
  can you call Dell and Lenovo and expect support as a Linux user? Or do you still have to put Windows back on before they give you the time of day?
  - horsawlarway 4y ago
    Yes, as long as you've purchased a machine that they offer with a linux distro pre-installed, or that they've certified (ex: Dell only ships Ubuntu but will certify hardware for Redhat compatibility). Ex: https://www.dell.com/en-us/lp/linux-systems https://www.dell.com/en-us/lp/linux-systems I used an XPS 13 developer edition for quite a while. Great little machine, but a couple of known issues around wifi/bluetooth and the fingerprint reader. Fixable, and Dell actually did provide drivers in a deb for Ubuntu, but it took them a little while. But generally speaking, yes you can call - they will provide resources and point you at fixes they've implemented, but it's still a bit of a grab bag. I would definitely not buy a linux machine from them without checking the Arch wiki first. Ex: The current developer machine shipping from Dells link is here: https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Dell_XPS_13_Plus_(9320) https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Dell_XPS_13_Plus_(9320) Mostly fine across the board - some known issues with very recent kernel versions, and some problems with the webcam. Dell fixed the webcam issues in their default Ubuntu release, but it requires manual fixing on other distros.
kitsunesoba 4y ago
The problem with this is that set of laptops is so small and restrictive. It's mostly just Clevo rebadges which feel kinda cheap and have design choices that are becoming outdated like 16:9 screens and a couple of models from Dell and HP. My general rules of thumb for selecting laptops for linux: - Avoid Realtek wherever possible, usually in favor of Intel. Even though Realtek hardware usually technically works on Linux, it's often in a reduced or buggy capacity. - Avoid Nvidia. This might change soon now that Nvidia is finally being a bit more open with driver development, but for now Nvidia cards are still likely cause of unnecessary pain. - If possible, avoid discrete GPUs. AMD cards are more likely to be well-behaved than Nvidia cards but often the most trouble-free experience is with nothing but an iGPU. This is really only practical for users who use laptops for their portability and have a desktop for where raw power is necessary.
- trelane 4y ago
  > The problem with this is that set of laptops is so small and restrictive. I disagree on this and the supposed Clevo point. Got a source for "just a Clevo" rebadge? Also, support and firmware.
  - kitsunesoba 4y ago
    Many of the names that come to mind when mentioning Linux-native laptops like system76 and Tuxedo Computers use Clevo as their ODM. They make some tweaks to the hardware and might change the firmware, but at the end of the day, they're still Clevo complete with aforementioned warts (like 16:9 screens and questionable build quality). There are exceptions like Starlabs Systems and Purism, but they're the exception and not the norm.
    - trelane 4y ago
      All vendors use an ODM. That doesn't mean that buying from the ODM directly will get you the same experience as buying from them. The vendor cam work with the ODM to customize hardware and firmware, so "rebadge" is a really poor way of describing it. But yes, if you want a non-Clevo ODM there aren't as many options. Note, though, that buying from Windows vendors will make the situation worse, not better.

horsawlarway 4y ago

Honestly - As a long time user I think you're much better off checking the Arch wiki first. It will reflect the reality of the situation for that specific set of hardware. The vendor is going to give you a sales pitch. And I say this as someone who has gone out of my way to buy hardware from vendors that officially support linux (Dell & Lenovo). In many cases - the most official support you'll get is "This is a known issue, we are working on it."

trelane 4y ago
can you call Dell and Lenovo and expect support as a Linux user? Or do you still have to put Windows back on before they give you the time of day?
- horsawlarway 4y ago
  Yes, as long as you've purchased a machine that they offer with a linux distro pre-installed, or that they've certified (ex: Dell only ships Ubuntu but will certify hardware for Redhat compatibility). Ex: https://www.dell.com/en-us/lp/linux-systems https://www.dell.com/en-us/lp/linux-systems I used an XPS 13 developer edition for quite a while. Great little machine, but a couple of known issues around wifi/bluetooth and the fingerprint reader. Fixable, and Dell actually did provide drivers in a deb for Ubuntu, but it took them a little while. But generally speaking, yes you can call - they will provide resources and point you at fixes they've implemented, but it's still a bit of a grab bag. I would definitely not buy a linux machine from them without checking the Arch wiki first. Ex: The current developer machine shipping from Dells link is here: https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Dell_XPS_13_Plus_(9320) https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Dell_XPS_13_Plus_(9320) Mostly fine across the board - some known issues with very recent kernel versions, and some problems with the webcam. Dell fixed the webcam issues in their default Ubuntu release, but it requires manual fixing on other distros.

kitsunesoba 4y ago

The problem with this is that set of laptops is so small and restrictive. It's mostly just Clevo rebadges which feel kinda cheap and have design choices that are becoming outdated like 16:9 screens and a couple of models from Dell and HP. My general rules of thumb for selecting laptops for linux: - Avoid Realtek wherever possible, usually in favor of Intel. Even though Realtek hardware usually technically works on Linux, it's often in a reduced or buggy capacity. - Avoid Nvidia. This might change soon now that Nvidia is finally being a bit more open with driver development, but for now Nvidia cards are still likely cause of unnecessary pain. - If possible, avoid discrete GPUs. AMD cards are more likely to be well-behaved than Nvidia cards but often the most trouble-free experience is with nothing but an iGPU. This is really only practical for users who use laptops for their portability and have a desktop for where raw power is necessary.

trelane 4y ago
> The problem with this is that set of laptops is so small and restrictive. I disagree on this and the supposed Clevo point. Got a source for "just a Clevo" rebadge? Also, support and firmware.
- kitsunesoba 4y ago
  Many of the names that come to mind when mentioning Linux-native laptops like system76 and Tuxedo Computers use Clevo as their ODM. They make some tweaks to the hardware and might change the firmware, but at the end of the day, they're still Clevo complete with aforementioned warts (like 16:9 screens and questionable build quality). There are exceptions like Starlabs Systems and Purism, but they're the exception and not the norm.
  - trelane 4y ago
    All vendors use an ODM. That doesn't mean that buying from the ODM directly will get you the same experience as buying from them. The vendor cam work with the ODM to customize hardware and firmware, so "rebadge" is a really poor way of describing it. But yes, if you want a non-Clevo ODM there aren't as many options. Note, though, that buying from Windows vendors will make the situation worse, not better.