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> Things that are ‘natural’ typically have a much longer period of human and animal use. Most of the hybrids you're consuming are nowhere to be found in nature

> Things that are ‘natural’ typically have a much longer period of human and animal use. Most of the hybrids you're consuming are nowhere to be found in nature. But since they are "natural" somehow they are absolved of most sins. And then boom and E. coli outbreak https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Germany_E._coli_O104:H4_outbreak https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Germany_E._coli_O104:H4_o... or listeriosis outbreak https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_United_States_listeriosis_outbreak https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_United_States_listeriosis... > The real concern with GMOs is not about something like a genetic collapse but the fact that the technology is only really capable of enabling the use of more exotic pesticides and herbicides in food stocks. That is not nearly the main concern. If anything, GMOs would allow us to forego most exotic pesticides and herbicides. > I really don’t see the need to engage in a widespread experiment on pesticide use when targeted smaller scale studies would suffice. What I "love" about discussions like this is that they immediately veer off territory that is only tenuously adjacent, at best.

blululu 4y ago
This is a total false equivalence. Crossing two apples falls within the same neighborhood. Crisper blasts it to another continent. There is a reason you don’t need to harden classic seeds produced from fruit for 6+ generations. This is like comparing a jetliner to a bicycle. Sure they both travel - great. same thing, same speed limits, same regulations. As for GMO’s letting us forgo pesticides? When is that going to happen? Currently that is their main application in ag (synth bio for chemical precursors is more interesting but totally different). The more fanciful dreams of geneticists have not yielded a panacea of new options. And this is a purely political issue over agricultural policy. Farm subsidies are directly related to this discussion. If it were just a science project it would not concern me in the slightest. The fact that there are a large number of unwitting subjects has clear ethical implications and pretending that this is not a political issue is just obtuse.
- illiarian 4y ago
  > This is a total false equivalence. Crossing two apples falls within the same neighborhood. Crisper blasts it to another continent. Of course it doesn't. There's a reason I picked corn specifically. Because it's such a mutant, scientists still struggle to unravel all the mixed stff that eneded up there. And, of course, none of the stuff you eat would ever evolve naturally in nature. > As for GMO’s letting us forgo pesticides? When is that going to happen? I didn't said forego entirely. Some studies suggest that even with the very few crops that are allowed to be modified, farmers already use less pesticides: https://allianceforscience.org/blog/2020/07/new-study-gmo-crops-reduce-pesticide-use-greenhouse-gas-emissions/ https://allianceforscience.org/blog/2020/07/new-study-gmo-cr...

blululu 4y ago

This is a total false equivalence. Crossing two apples falls within the same neighborhood. Crisper blasts it to another continent. There is a reason you don’t need to harden classic seeds produced from fruit for 6+ generations. This is like comparing a jetliner to a bicycle. Sure they both travel - great. same thing, same speed limits, same regulations. As for GMO’s letting us forgo pesticides? When is that going to happen? Currently that is their main application in ag (synth bio for chemical precursors is more interesting but totally different). The more fanciful dreams of geneticists have not yielded a panacea of new options. And this is a purely political issue over agricultural policy. Farm subsidies are directly related to this discussion. If it were just a science project it would not concern me in the slightest. The fact that there are a large number of unwitting subjects has clear ethical implications and pretending that this is not a political issue is just obtuse.

illiarian 4y ago
> This is a total false equivalence. Crossing two apples falls within the same neighborhood. Crisper blasts it to another continent. Of course it doesn't. There's a reason I picked corn specifically. Because it's such a mutant, scientists still struggle to unravel all the mixed stff that eneded up there. And, of course, none of the stuff you eat would ever evolve naturally in nature. > As for GMO’s letting us forgo pesticides? When is that going to happen? I didn't said forego entirely. Some studies suggest that even with the very few crops that are allowed to be modified, farmers already use less pesticides: https://allianceforscience.org/blog/2020/07/new-study-gmo-crops-reduce-pesticide-use-greenhouse-gas-emissions/ https://allianceforscience.org/blog/2020/07/new-study-gmo-cr...