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Italy was the lab for modern populism in politics for 20-30 years. The nation is suffering from corrupt politicians like Berlusconi having tight bonds with the

Italy was the lab for modern populism in politics for 20-30 years. The nation is suffering from corrupt politicians like Berlusconi having tight bonds with the mafia. Don't put this on "the people" who can barely do much if the whole system is undermined by their leadership for decades.

gpderetta 4y ago
People did elect both Berlusconi and the current government.
- nforgerit 4y ago
  Germans also did elect Hitler's party as a majority in the last couple of elections before he assumed power. That's not the point. The point is that some stakeholders of the political class worked on hollowing out the Italian political system for 2-3 decades. And corruption is an issue in economical growth.
  - est31 4y ago
    Neither NSDAP nor Hitler as an individual ever got a majority in a free federal-level election. Hitler lost to Hindenburg in a presidential election 1932. In the Reichstag parliament election of March 1933, which was shortly after Hitler was appointed chancellor by Hindenburg, and which one can't really call free at this point due to violent suppression of the political left, the NSDAP still only got 43% of votes. They only got a majority of seats after they managed to remove the KPD seats through violence and arrests, and then quickly made a vote to make the Reichstag irrelevant for making new laws (with help of other parties as they needed a two-thirds majority). But yes, they were met with little enough resistance from the conservative establishment that they could execute their power grab.
kfk 4y ago
I think we disagree on the problem and I understand I have a strong opinion which might be wrong. But I think that kind of thinking is exactly the issue in Italy. I think if the "people" took responsibility for their actions Italy would not be in this situation. In fact, I think Italy and Italians never took responsibility for terrible stuff like Mussolini and the Holocaust, so from my perspective this is an old, old, problem.

gpderetta 4y ago

People did elect both Berlusconi and the current government.

nforgerit 4y ago
Germans also did elect Hitler's party as a majority in the last couple of elections before he assumed power. That's not the point. The point is that some stakeholders of the political class worked on hollowing out the Italian political system for 2-3 decades. And corruption is an issue in economical growth.
- est31 4y ago
  Neither NSDAP nor Hitler as an individual ever got a majority in a free federal-level election. Hitler lost to Hindenburg in a presidential election 1932. In the Reichstag parliament election of March 1933, which was shortly after Hitler was appointed chancellor by Hindenburg, and which one can't really call free at this point due to violent suppression of the political left, the NSDAP still only got 43% of votes. They only got a majority of seats after they managed to remove the KPD seats through violence and arrests, and then quickly made a vote to make the Reichstag irrelevant for making new laws (with help of other parties as they needed a two-thirds majority). But yes, they were met with little enough resistance from the conservative establishment that they could execute their power grab.

kfk 4y ago

I think we disagree on the problem and I understand I have a strong opinion which might be wrong. But I think that kind of thinking is exactly the issue in Italy. I think if the "people" took responsibility for their actions Italy would not be in this situation. In fact, I think Italy and Italians never took responsibility for terrible stuff like Mussolini and the Holocaust, so from my perspective this is an old, old, problem.