3 ms·

I strongly disagree. (FWIW, I wrote this review.) I have about a dozen Thinkpads myself, which is why I was interested to review this one and the Arm-based X1

I strongly disagree. (FWIW, I wrote this review.) I have about a dozen Thinkpads myself, which is why I was interested to review this one and the Arm-based X13s. I dislike the keyboards, and while they are among the best chiclet keyboards on the market , for me, it is fair and accurate to say that all chiclet keyboards are far worse than all pre-chiclet Thinkpad keyboards. No Thinkpads since the 220/420/520 have been pleasant to type on. They are all poorer than the older models.

ofalkaed 4y ago
You strongly disagree that the X1 and X13 have the best laptop keyboards that I have used since my old T42? Or that the side bevels serve no purpose beyond aesthetics? I don't think you can make a case for either but feel free to try.
- lproven 4y ago
  If you are happy, good for you. For me, I have tried several X1 models, Carbon and non-Carbon, and I find the keyboards to be poor. Bezels on keys (is that the right term?) make no real difference to me. Any Thinkpad with a chiclet keyboard is inferior to any Thinkpad with a non-chiclet keyboard. I often hear people say things like "oh the early ones were poor but they've got better" or "it was bad at first but they improved". I don't think they've improved. I thought they were junk when they were new (e.g. X230) and they're still junk (e.g. 2022 models). Again, I am not proclaiming this as some universal truth. It's my opinion, and only that. But there are a list of things I like about my older Thinkpads: great best-in-industry keyboards, easily end-user upgradable disk and RAM, lots of disk bays, lots of ports, removable batteries, easy disassembly without special tools, easy to replace keyboards, pointing devicer, and so on. Modern Thinkpads lack all these. Junk keyboards, sealed units, few ports, few bays, not upgradable, not end-user maintainable. Thinkpads were Rolls-Royce laptops, user-serviceable, a joy to use, and with a long lifetime that was readily extended. New ones are, to me, overpriced glued-together plastic junk, as poor as any other make... But they're still black and still have a Trackpoint. So people who never tried the old ones think that being a Thinkpad means an average laptop but it's black and has a red dot thing that they don't know how to use, and they don't get why people rate Thinkpads so highly.
andrewmutz 4y ago
Aside from the keyboard, what did you think of the Arm-based X13s? I've had my eye on that one. Is linux support for ARM good enough for daily use?
- lproven 4y ago
  Review link and discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35262156 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35262156 I think the review and the discussion answer your questions. If not, do say so.

ofalkaed 4y ago

You strongly disagree that the X1 and X13 have the best laptop keyboards that I have used since my old T42? Or that the side bevels serve no purpose beyond aesthetics? I don't think you can make a case for either but feel free to try.

lproven 4y ago
If you are happy, good for you. For me, I have tried several X1 models, Carbon and non-Carbon, and I find the keyboards to be poor. Bezels on keys (is that the right term?) make no real difference to me. Any Thinkpad with a chiclet keyboard is inferior to any Thinkpad with a non-chiclet keyboard. I often hear people say things like "oh the early ones were poor but they've got better" or "it was bad at first but they improved". I don't think they've improved. I thought they were junk when they were new (e.g. X230) and they're still junk (e.g. 2022 models). Again, I am not proclaiming this as some universal truth. It's my opinion, and only that. But there are a list of things I like about my older Thinkpads: great best-in-industry keyboards, easily end-user upgradable disk and RAM, lots of disk bays, lots of ports, removable batteries, easy disassembly without special tools, easy to replace keyboards, pointing devicer, and so on. Modern Thinkpads lack all these. Junk keyboards, sealed units, few ports, few bays, not upgradable, not end-user maintainable. Thinkpads were Rolls-Royce laptops, user-serviceable, a joy to use, and with a long lifetime that was readily extended. New ones are, to me, overpriced glued-together plastic junk, as poor as any other make... But they're still black and still have a Trackpoint. So people who never tried the old ones think that being a Thinkpad means an average laptop but it's black and has a red dot thing that they don't know how to use, and they don't get why people rate Thinkpads so highly.

andrewmutz 4y ago

Aside from the keyboard, what did you think of the Arm-based X13s? I've had my eye on that one. Is linux support for ARM good enough for daily use?

lproven 4y ago
Review link and discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35262156 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35262156 I think the review and the discussion answer your questions. If not, do say so.