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If your economy is entirely dependent on a doomed industry, maybe, instead of artificially keeping it alive, focus on modernising that economy instead?
by 9dev 4y ago
If your economy is entirely dependent on a doomed industry, maybe, instead of artificially keeping it alive, focus on modernising that economy instead?
- lm28469 4y agoEvery industry is doomed when developing countries can do the same for half the price... Which is exactly why Europe delocalised a lot of industries in the first place and is now mostly stuck with services, tourism and tech. And it's exactly what we should stop doing if we want to have anything of value left I know it's hard to believe for a lot of people on HN but not every country wants to become yet another soulless cog of the globalized world
- withinboredom 4y agoI have nothing but farm for hours just 10 minutes from house in the EU. There's a lot more than "services, tourism, and tech."
- lm28469 4y agoOf course, but with automation and modern mass farming techniques it represents 1% of the jobs it used to, the rest of the population has been pushed out in services &co If the future Google of lab grown meats comes in the game you'll get even more centralisation, less small/medium exploitations, and most likely 0 local production given the barrier to entry
- MichaelZuo 4y ago> Every industry is doomed when developing countries can do the same for half the price... Which is exactly why Europe delocalised a lot of industries in the first place and is now mostly stuck with services, tourism and tech. This seems false, if there is uninterrupted farmland for hours, regardless of what % EU farms employed?
- unixgoddess 4y agoare you in eastern europe? for most western europe, europe means western europe unfortunately
- lm28469 4y agoEastern Europe is actually the opposite, lower tourism than the west and higher industry: less offshoring + western countries relocated some industries to the east to benefits from lower wages https://preview.redd.it/fmpg5f0i9bc31.png?auto=webp&s=96ce53770942e5a12f04b32db69dba4e64e06f70 https://preview.redd.it/fmpg5f0i9bc31.png?auto=webp&s=96ce53...
- unixgoddess 4y agothat's my point, they have much higher farming and industry than service, so it's not surprising that OP has tons of farms around
- RugnirViking 4y ago??? There is so much agriculture in western europe, look at net food exports by country. Germany, france, netherlands, uk...
- withinboredom 4y agoNetherlands. Very dense cities surrounded by farm land. One of my friends is an engineer for food manufacturing equipment. Another for payment processing, and another as a bike mechanic, and another builds gaming rigs (think sim rigs). I don’t think I know anyone who works in tourism.
- unixgoddess 4y agoare there really hours worth of travel in the netherlands? or perhaps you meant travel by bike
- withinboredom 4y ago
- jacquesm 4y ago> now mostly stuck with services, tourism and tech > hard to believe for a lot of people on HN You generalize a lot. The EU does far more than services, tourism and tech and you can't really know what a lot of people on HN find hard to believe, especially if you then throw up a strawman about their professed beliefs.
- lm28469 4y agoBut then again services represents 73% of European jobs according to Wikipedia HN crowd is by large pro tech and "progress" with little to no concern about ethics, culture and other issues, reading this thread is a prime example of it actually
- jacquesm 4y agoSure, but 'jobs' are not everything, they are just one measure and if you look at what is listed under 'services' then you'll find that a lot of those services are actually in support of the other 27% of the jobs.
- hammock 4y agoLabor and capital, what else is there?
- mrfreed 4y agoI would just liket o say that I think that HN is very diverse. I come here to read tech and progress news. But this is also the best site for reading about culture, ethics and other issues that I can find. All newsmedia eg BBC, Guardian, PBS, ABC, New York Times etc., all have an editorial axe to grind. By listening and discussing here with the very people that make 'progress' and in a real sense shape culture I gain very much and am allowed to have an opinion. Most people here are awesome considerate people and the trolls don't usually stick around very long. RE: 73% jobs - let the machines do the work so people have time to think - and to create culture - and to progress!! Yay HN, yay progress, yay culture!
- kmlx 4y ago> I know it's hard to believe for a lot of people on HN but not every country wants to become yet another soulless cog of the globalized world are you referring to Italy? a country where producers sell products all around the planet? where immigrants are almost 10% of the population? whose economy is tightly integrated into the globalised world?
- neuralRiot 4y agoIf we want to leave an habitable planet for future generations we should focus more in lab meat and less in “traditions” not everything traditional is good. HN is mostly a science oriented public which is accustomed to change its views when enough proof is shown, this is the way should be.
- kubb 4y ago[flagged]
- zpeti 4y agoI'm sorry but Italy produces some of my favourite foods, I find it ridiculous to call this a doomed industry. Italy has basically developed some of the best foods for humanity through hundreds of years of craftsmanship, from parmesan to mozarella to pasta, or crudo ham. If anything this should be protected just from a heritage perspective, like you protect an ancient castle or temple. This might mean that food is more expensive, but I for one would pay more for it. We don't have to burn everything good and old to the ground to make way for tech bros of HN creating fake meat.
- 9dev 4y ago> We don't have to burn everything good and old to the ground to make way for tech bros of HN creating fake meat. No. But maybe we can become a species smart enough to avoid the suffering of other beings just for the joy of eating something that tastes nice.
- starkd 4y ago>> just for the joy of eating something that tastes nice That is an example of assuming the worst about someone else with whom you disagree. Taste is not a minor factor. It is a major part of life. Life rituals, commmunity are built around it. It gives life much of its diversity.
- pjc50 4y agoPretty weird to describe "food" as a doomed industry.
- 9dev 4y agoNobody described "food" as a doomed industry, but the practice of slaughtering animals for protein if better alternatives become available (which they definitely are not yet, not even long term).
- stametseater 4y ago[flagged]
- freilanzer 4y agoAh yes, the scheming, devious vegan agenda of animal rights.
- stametseater 4y agoYes. Italy's culinary reputation, joined at the hip to their tourism industry, is worth far more to Italy than that crap.
- gpderetta 4y agoto be clear, they are far right because they are fascists.
- 9dev 4y agoYeah. I always forget that billions of animals suffering is somehow okay if it's about reputation or tasty food. My bad.
- stametseater 4y ago> billions of animals suffering is somehow okay if it's about reputation or tasty food. Billions of humans concur, including an overwhelming majority of Italians. But since when have progressive reformers cared about democracy? You want to impose your ideology on everybody else, even though you don't have popular support. If you did have popular support, the issue would be settled already in your favor, but you don't and so it won't be.
- briandear 4y ago[flagged]
- veeti 4y agoJust HN things: the meat industry that serves 75% of the world population and will continue to do so for the foreseeable future is "doomed".
- rolenthedeep 4y ago"this is the way it's been and it will never change" always works out well. Factory farming is an ecological and ethical dumpster fire. Animals take up a ton of land, feed, and water, and they're pretty terrible at turning feed into meat. The grain that livestock eats can feed more people than the meat from those animals. Factory farming is expensive and unsustainable at our current population, and it's only going to get worse as time goes on. Once the industry around lab grown meat starts to scale, the price will fall to the point that it's no longer economically viable to farm animals at scale. The lab grown meat will be cheaper, have the same or better nutritional content, and do it with a fraction of the land, water, energy, and feedstock input. Given equivalent mass of organic matter as input, lab processes will likely output many times more edible protein. You have the extra benefits of not needing to wait years for an animal to grow up, you don't need to maintain acres of farm or clean up after the animals. You don't have to butcher the animal and deal with the waste products. On the scale of a generation or three, factory farming is absolutely doomed. An unsustainable process can't compete with a sustainable one that operates at a fraction of the cost while producing many times more output. Note that we're specifically talking about industrial factory farming. Small farms will likely always exist, and you can buy "real" meat as a luxury item at an appropriately high price.
- PM_me_your_math 4y agoFood is a doomed industry? Maybe for the people who want to eat insect burgers.
- matheusmoreira 4y agoYeah, sure. Food and drink, doomed industries. Absolutely.